To be a bit jealous of people who grow up within a 'culture'?

[haagendaz]

By culture I guess I mean a sense of identity and belonging within a group, cooking food with family, traditional music and dance and possibly religion, although this is not a necessity!

I grew up in a small, middle class, athiest family in London, we moved around a lot so I didn't have somewhere I 'came from' as such. My parents were keen for me to learn about other cultures (which fascinated me) but it made me sad we didn't really have one ourselves. We didn't really cook or listen to music or have extended family.

I spent 8 years living abroad in several different countries (Thailand, Brazil, Italy & Japan) and loved the sense of belonging and being 'part' of something that people felt. AIBU or does anyone else feel like this?

Regardless of whether the OP identifies herself as culturally British, it is certainly true that some families embrace their culture with more enthusiasm than others. I also feel slightly jealous of families that have a wonderfully rich set of traditions and customs (whether they are externally sourced or just something that has developed within their family over the years/generations).
My family are culturally British, but we don't really "get into" festivities/events etc like some other families do.

I live in an area in Sydney that has a large jewish population and I often envy their close-knit community and the way they seem to have a sense of something they really "belong" to. I am sure that there are aspects of this same "belonging" that would drive me nuts but I understand the OP's POV (I think).

So YANBU

I haven't read the whole thread, but I think what you're saying, OP, is that you miss belonging to a "community", no?

I'm Jewish. I live in a city with a smallish Jewish community (around 2000 members), so everyone knows everyone. It can be slightly claustrophobic at times, but there's an amazing support network and solidarity here which I love. I also love not having to explain things to people who "get" me and share the same cultural references!

I'm also a "member" of a few other non-ethnic communities, though - I'm a medic, so there's an instant connection with other medics and we have our own specific understanding and humour. There are lots of doctors in my neighbourhood, so it's easy to make friends here and instantly have something in common.

Also, my 3 kids all compete at a fairly high level in gymnastics, so the gym club has become like a family to us, as we spend so many weekends with the same group of people!

I'm sure you can find a group to "belong" to! It doesn't have to be religious, ethnic or cultural, just based on a shared passion or circumstance... Maybe you just need to find a group to get involved in on a deeper level :)

I think your own culture is difficult to see from the inside. British people often think of themselves as 'cultureless' or diluted. But it isn't. I have just come back from Canada and we were amazed at how they view the British culture and how rich it looks from the outside. Things we just think of as normal is very exotic to others.

I worked in an international office and was always being asked questions about the UK, colloquial words, how to make jam, cook roasts, xmas etc. It made me feel very aware of 'us' and also as 'proud' as the others when we swapped stories.

Personally i grew up in a similar environment to you OP. Atheist, middle class London, I have no extended family and neither does DP and our parents have little contact with us. Despite this (and maybe because of this) we have really embraced traditions and culture (not just british). I pick blackberries and greegages and make jams and chutneys. We do egg hunts and have specific food on certain days (always celebrate chinese new year and diwali too!). Xmas trees and music specific to our culture.

Also remember not to confuse oldness with culture. Singing slade at xmas is only what other cultures 600 year old songs are, just more recent. (in 600 years they will still be singing it and then it will be considered 'authentic' culture!)

I think the bottom line is we are part of a culture, just not one which has large family/religious roots. Other protestant countries are just the same. I think you are confusing not having large family/community with not having culture. Our culture is territorial privacy. In the past this made us progressive and affluent - not having loads of kids sharing a bedroom in poverty etc. But now we can feel isolated and lonely.

I think I understand where you are coming from, OP. Obviously, England has a culture, but it is perhaps less self-consciously English than some other cultures. And in some ways, a little less tangible perhaps.

Having lived abroad in countries where there is a much stronger emphasis on traditional culture, I have often wondered why we don't all learn traditional English dances or have a traditional English dress etc. Occasionally I have felt a bit sad about it, but perhaps that lack of self-conscious Englishness itself is part of our English culture.

DH is from a much more visible culture, and I enjoy this. I like the fact that dd is learning traditional dances, taking part in community festivals, and has a sense of her own identity as part of a very colourful and close-knit community. But I also like the fact that she has an identity outside of that community and doesn't feel smothered by it, unlike DH, who sometimes finds it a bit of a burden.

At the end of the day, I think you can create your own traditions and community around you if you choose to do that, and you can give your kids a strong sense of identity and belonging, no matter where you come from.

Also you tend to find those people who have a more visible/obvious culture and are conscious of it and constantly aware of 'who they are'. Are immigrants or those from cultures which have been marginalised and oppressed.

The reason English culture does not have this need is because this hasn't happened to us since 1066.

All I ever wanted was to be called Tracey and live in a council house. My family were quite posh, my dad worked in London during the week and my mum was a champagne 80s hippy/feminist. I craved the cosiness of the whole family having tea on their laps and the "God help anyone who messes with my family" type of mum. I don't think it is just about religion, it is about belonging and feeling "normal". My mum also had a purple VW Beetle that rarely made it to the end of the road without us pushing, I used to enter competitions in her name to try and win a Sierra or Cortina!

Also you tend to find those people who have a more visible/obvious culture and are conscious of it and constantly aware of 'who they are'. Are immigrants or those from cultures which have been marginalised and oppressed.

The reason English culture does not have this need is because this hasn't happened to us since 1066.

Not necessarily. The Japanese, for example, are very self-conscious about their culture. There may well be historical reasons for this, but I don't think they have been particularly marginalised and oppressed.

It's not just about religion theo but those cultures who usually have large family traditions are often not protestant. India, Italy, Spain, Brazil etc. You don't often hear people coveting Germanic or Scandinavian cultures (or anywhere cold really for that matter - i wonder why that is? Is it food related maybe?).

I grew up in The Salvation Army, you always had friends or someone to talk to. I left after working for them abroad and seeing my corps for what it was. I miss the people but not the attitude.

Yes i agree jinsei but i think Japan is an exception as they did seal themselves off from the rest of the word to preserve their culture. Our culture went the other way.

I know that Spuddy, I live in a Muslim country and I am also half English and my non English side of the family were the same. Food is such a massive part of family culture, it is considered rude to refuse to join people for food, have therefore inbibed a huge amount of camel hump, sheep head etc here. In my childhood, had to eat at about 15 different peoples houses a day to not offend when visiting the relatives in Europe.

Yes, I'm sure that had a lot to do with it, spuddy. And presumably they did feel that their culture was threatened in the past, otherwise they wouldn't have felt the need to close the country off.

The idea about hot countries is interesting. I think life tends to be lived much more "on the streets" in hot countries, and so the community thing becomes more important. In cold countries, I guess there is a greater tendency for us to hide away in our individual houses.

jinsei and maybe the temperature influences how many children people have - cos they don't want to take their clothes off!

I am from London and that is my 'forever place' peace. We are emigrating next year but London will always be my home :)

Where are you thinking of going?

Peace Kent has some lovely places. If we were going to stay in the UK we would settle in Canterbury.

I agree it can be lonely, but for us (just DP me and baby on the way) it is a blank canvas - we are going to make our own culture and have committed to making our family and culture something warm and stable for our children. We look to the future and see our children and their friends/partners/children etc all around us for for xmas with DP wearing a hideous knitted reindeer jumper and me making mince pies! - the opposite of what we have with our parents.

Sort of like the end of watership down, when they have found their 'place' and hazel is old and watching all his family :)

I never thought I had much of a culture, I just thought my family were 'normal'. Until I moved to the UK and learned all the subtle differences between my culture and this one, and realised that what I considered 'just normal', was in fact, my culture.

I totally get what you're saying OP. I'm from Ireland, I have a massive family and family events are chaotic affairs with at least 70 or 80 people. If someone dies the church is packed out, often so full you can't sit down, and there is a party afterwards that extends long into the night. I live in England now but when I go back to Ireland I spend days visiting people and I do very much feel a sense of belonging to a big group. When I moved over to England the lack of that sense of belonging really struck me hard. I couldn't believe how small funerals were and how rare and quiet family get togethers were among the families of my husband and my English friends.

I think the reason England can feel quite "cultureless" is the lack of a strongly expressed shared religion. Ireland is very Catholic and just about every child in my generation and previous ones (though not so much now) was baptised, made their first communion and confirmation and went to mass every week whether they liked it or not. That shared Catholic ethos gives a strong common outlook on things. It also provides a script for how to deal with life which is very important. You have a baby - you get it baptised and have a party. Your baby turns 8 - she has her first communion and you have a party. Your baby turns 12 0 she makes her confirmation and you have a party. Baby's gran dies - you have a massive funeral and a party. There's a fixed timetable of events that everyone assumes will happen which works as a great social lubricant. Having a common religion ties you together.

All that said, I don't really miss being part of that culture. I want my children to have a busy fun home but I don't want them to be fed a religion wholesale no matter what the social benefits are. Being part of a tight group like my family can feel extremely smothering after a while. It's only since I moved away that I finally feel I can be myself. Being part of a fixed group, especially one tied by religion can be very stifling. There is a constant subtle pressure to conform which can make people very small minded.

Cultivate your own little culture OP. Start your own traditions. It's hard work, but worth it :)

I think the best thing about being 'part of a culture' is the coming together of extended families (if you all get on!). The rest of it seems to stem from that - the food, music etc. Its not the same if you're sharing 'cultural' food with just your own partner and children.
OP as you moved around a lot, is this perhaps the main thing you feel missed out on?

The Japanese haven't been oppressed or marginalised, but they have been occupied very recently. That might have something to do with it. I realise that the attitude people are talking about predates this, and also am not trying to downplay the fact that they were very definitely the aggressors in that particular war, but I've heard that the experience of occupation was very significant in the national psyche.

Spuddybean I definitely covet a lot of aspects of Scandinavian cultures!

flang me too, but it just doesn't seem to be so romanticised as warmer climes/Mediterranean cultures. Less loud and more reserved i suppose.

However, the scandinavian people i have met have been the loveliest, and the culture of fairness and sharing is overwhelming. Not so sure about the pickled fish tho...