To be a bit jealous of people who grow up within a 'culture'?

[haagendaz]

By culture I guess I mean a sense of identity and belonging within a group, cooking food with family, traditional music and dance and possibly religion, although this is not a necessity!

I grew up in a small, middle class, athiest family in London, we moved around a lot so I didn't have somewhere I 'came from' as such. My parents were keen for me to learn about other cultures (which fascinated me) but it made me sad we didn't really have one ourselves. We didn't really cook or listen to music or have extended family.

I spent 8 years living abroad in several different countries (Thailand, Brazil, Italy & Japan) and loved the sense of belonging and being 'part' of something that people felt. AIBU or does anyone else feel like this?

There are big regional differences, though and as the OP says, she spent part of her childhood out of the UK.

If your family don't blend in with those around them, it makes a difference.

Not being from the UK, my family wasn't interested in football, growing up in Liverpool, that ment that i couldn't join in with most of the conversations around me.

Not being from a Christian background, also made a difference, because we moved to a very Catholic area.

"We love spending time in Scotland and Ireland, and I agree both have strong cultures, it's really nice to feel a part of it even though we aren't fully fledged!"

:o

PMSL

"fully fledged"

:o

Seriously, is this for real?

I'll tell you one important part of English culture that you have fully imbibed - the idea that you are neutral, that you have no culture, and that everyone else's difference from you makes them quaint and interesting.

Go and fucking shite with your Ireland has a "strong" culture - sure, we all sit around cooking with our families and singing traditional songs and dancing around so English people can take videos and get a little thrill from "belonging".

I feel like part of a culture tbh , I may take up Morris dancing

AThingInYourLife - Are you have a bad day? You seem really intent on starting a bunfight. Yes DH's Irish family have a really strong culture, perhaps you don't? I don't know and I don't really care.

No, I'm having a great day.

Taking the piss out of self-indulgent, culturally-insensitive English bullshit is just an important and long-established part of my culture.

As your in-laws.

I'm English and have a strong sense of culture. My DH is Gambian and loves English culture - the countryside, the manners, politeness, Xmas, Easter, the sense of humour, queuing, pubs, Sunday lunches, English breakfasts and best of all freedom and tolerance for others.

AThingInYourLife - Can you explain what you mean by self indulgent English bullshit? Perhaps this could be considered culturally insensitive on your part?

Sorry if you felt I was being insensitive by describing the Irish culture as strong, if I was Irish and described my own culture as strong would this be less offensive to you?

I don't understand the last bit about my in-laws but I assume it was something unpleasant... I don't feel that you are in any position to speak on their behalf seeing as you know nothing about them.

English culture...from foreigners' vision (especially in Asian countries!): churches and cathedrals (the Asians admire British church and cathedral just like the western admire their temples) , pub social life, football, fish & chip, roasted dinner, Christmas dinner and family gathering, outdoor BBQ, wedding in church, etc.

It depends on the culture surely?

i've lived in England but grew up elsewhere.

i promise you, you have a culture. England's culture is very distinct!

i still miss aspects of it, just like those who've travelled in Asia (for example) remember specific foods/smells/sights/feelings that take them back.

i daydream about the foods, the lovely pubs (which you cannot find anywhere else btw... i've looked... it's not about the drinking or the decor, it's about how strangers chat and joke with one another, it's incredible, you won't find it anywhere else), the people and especially their humour, the turns of phrase, the regional differences... the strange yet lovely combination of kindness and reticence that so many English people display.

London is an incredible city. its history and culture are palpable to a foreigner, let me tell you!! it's like the city is alive under your feet. i am dying to take my (currently in-utero) daughter to London when she is able to appreciate it. and London isn't the only city in England that has those qualities. York and Leeds come to mind too.

i am an expat of my own home country. let me tell you, i never appreciated how incredibly specific and distinct my culture was until i became an expat. the reason you think you have "no culture" is because you are part of a majority and have never had to defend your way of life against a "foreign" influence.

your Hindu (or whatever culture) friends seem to have a richer culture than you because they are defending their way of life against YOUR very strong culture!!

OP What I believe AThing is talking about is the common belief among majority cultures (it's very common in England as well as common among Americans of European descent, going on about ones fractions) that their culture is bland / not really a culture / is all about the individual and that other cultures are so much stronger/more authentic/somehow different. The reality is that the majority culture is just as much of a culture, it just happens to be everywhere, and saying XYZ group have such a strong culture is stereotyping - treating the individuals as a monolith group - and many find it irritatingly annoying to downright offensive.

There will just as many individuals of other cultures that feel that they don't have a strong connection with their own culture and wish their families were stronger. It has little to do with your culture of origin and all to do with specific families. Sometimes, it is more common among people from minority groups as it tends to be washed out among the majority and hybrids after a generation or two so they feel it difficult to connect with their background.

you need only go to an English expat stronghold in somewhere like Argentina or Canada and you'll very quickly see what English culture is. because you will see 100s of English trying desperately to recreate something that you just can't get in another country.

What a lovely post oikopolis.

I don't know whether it's culturally specific to here, but I like the way people in certain roles/jobs speak to each other.

(leaving out the grumpy shitty ones ) Like the humour people seem to have working in a hospital talking to patients, and to each other in front of a patient to put them at ease.

I've seen it in different hospitals and there's definately a similar thread running through the way they talk which must be learned along the way somewhere.

I used to feel like this.

I slowly became aware that I did have a culture. There is a distinct way that I raise my DCs and live my life, my values, my activities my friends. I have as much of a valid culture as anyone else.

It's hard to see it from inside.

Hmmm.... There's a certain arrogance in your post, OP. You're English, of course you have a very definable culture.

It's just that you appear to be under the odd impression the English culture is the default, and other cultures just variation.

I understand what you are saying. I think it has a lot to do with living overseas as a child and nit having family nearby. Have you read anything on Global Nomads or Third Culture kids? You might find it quite informative.
I am Canadian, dh is British, we have lived in several countries before having kids. We currently live in Egypt and the culture (and religion) is very apparent in almost everything.
Now i worry my will six year old will have the same problems you are describing. She can speak some arabic, but misses a lot and obviously misses her cultural traditions - we try to do our best, but ... Eg. although the Easter bunny came, there was no Easter egg hunt at the park, or decorating eggs with her friends....
We plan to move toThailand next year and I am pregnant so I think as soon we get used to living here, we will have to adjust again.

Given that OP lives in England and is English, it's hardly shocking that she thinks of Englishness as the default. And given that she lives in the most multicultural part of England, amongst people who have another culture in addition to English, it's also understandable that she would feel envious. Some of the posts in this thread, the ones that have tried to gently and sensitively educate her about the wider issues have been very informative and valuable. Others have really, really not been. I agreed with the post about extended family. Big city living is wonderful, I'd never live anywhere but a city myself. But some people do find that fast-paced, modern urban life causes them to feel a sense of disconnection from roots and community. I think that feeling of dislocation and rootlessness might be what OP is getting at.

And it's true that exotic is all about where you're standing. I went to York last Halloween- fabulous place- and it was full of Japanese tourists excitedly sampling sausage rolls, pasties and cute Halloween cakes. It struck me that pies must seem very out of the ordinary to them! Fair play, one of the best things about going on holiday is sampling the local delicacies is very greedy

Excellent post Flangelina.

I don't where AThing gets off attacking the OP. I grew up in presumably similar circumstances (London, small, atheist family) and my feeling is that what the OP is really missing is not culture as such but a large family and the corresponding traditions, because I feel exactly the same.

I've lived abroad twice and neither time did I miss English culture in any way; though I recognise that the aforementioned elements of English culture (fish & chips, pubs, Sunday lunch, etc etc) do exist, they were not really a part of my upbringing and are not a part of my current life (by choice, so that's not to say that I wish they were) hence I don't really identify with them.

OP - I don't think YABU at all, but do know that you can create a family culture for your DC by the traditions you choose to make a part of their upbringing.

My mum's (huge) family are Anglo Indian, my dad's family are English. Mum's family are very religious (catholic). Dad's isn't (CofE). Mum's family all cook delicious Indian food. Dad's family cook English food, yummy but not exactly exotic.

I was born in England, but never felt like I belonged in a wider extent. I appreciate the Anglo Indian culture I grew up with... and especially appreciate the delicious food.

Growing up was difficult as none of my friends ever knew what Anglo Indian meant and couldn't relate to growing up within a different culture. In one primary school it lead to a bit of school yard racism. (not bad just really ignorant.)

I have married DH who can trace his family back to the 1400s all within 15 miles of where we live. And DH doesn't enjoy spicy food .

YANBU. I was thinking of this only lat night. How I'd like to hail from a crowd of folks who had some semblance of shared identity. Then I realied that it all sounded a bit cultish. The basic thought behind it still gives me the warm n fuzzies though.

be careful what you wish for - there are many disadvantages to growing up in an area which is very much dominated by one religion, one culture... I do think also there's an element of you not seeing "english culture" cos its all around you so you see other cultures eg irish, scottish and think "oh these look quaint and interesting".. Think I really agree with a thing etc actually...

You see the positive aspects of living in a strong minority culture but none of the negatives. Middle class slightly try hard lefty atheist is a very very definable English sub set and I could spot such a person at twenty paces. So take comfort.

Yes I agree with a thing too.

As for what you said about Scotland. I'm Scottish and feel totally devoid of culture! You might get a more "authentic" feeling up north in the Glens but major towns and cities are just the same Capitalist machines as places their like around the world.

Middle class slightly try hard lefty atheist is a very very definable English sub set and I could spot such a person at twenty paces.

Um, have we met?

OP I come from a similar background as you (though my parents are New Age lentil weavers rather than atheists), and I actually appreciate it a lot more now that I am married to someone who definitely has the culture/religion thing. In abundance.

I get how the community thing can be nice - but it also comes with all sorts of strings attached. DH is Arab and has a family that in my estimate makes up some 20% of the world's population. There's food and religion, community and customs - the whole package, basically.

However, there are also PIL whose first reaction to my pregnancy was to try and impose a name on us, BIL2 who everyone knows is actually gay but married to a woman (because everything else is simply not acceptable), first cousin marriage and rigorous social control of everything from fashion choices to university majors.

PIL would love for us to go and live with them - I simply couldn't ever do it because it's just way too much 'culture' for my taste.