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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not agree with moves to ban alcohol in a University as it may be best for Muslim beliefs

88 replies

HalfPastWine · 18/04/2012 20:05

[[http://www.metro.co.uk/news/896031-london-university-believes-bar-on-bars-may-be-best-for-muslim-beliefs Here]

Surely, if you don't agree with alcohol consumption you keep away from such establishments? The campus has lots of facilities to accommodate everyone including cafes.

Is this just taking things too far?

OP posts:
defuse · 18/04/2012 22:53

HalfPast I understand what you are saying. I can't help but think that this was a move by the university to attract international students and bring in the money and that it has nothing to do with muslim students on campus declaring alcohol immoral.

If we look closely at the articles, does it state anywhere that someone/anyone has asked for a ban?

I haven't found anywhere in any of the articles that muslims have actually objected to alcohol being sold on campus but can see this is going to turn into another 'we bend over backwards for the muslims' in the papers.

Thankfully, majority of MNetters seem to have more sense than falling for propaganda churned out by DM/telegraph which love a muslim story!

Original poster
HalfPastWine · 18/04/2012 23:11

dontquotem3 Interesting. Makes you wonder how this guy Gillies has reached such a senior position.

OP posts:
defuse · 18/04/2012 23:33

dontquotem3 Thank you for that link. This guy really does divide and conquer.

EdithWeston · 19/04/2012 07:44

I'm surprised that The Telegraph is being lumped together with The Mail. Very different newspapers, with different editorial styles and standards.

Here is The Telegraph article from 6 days ago about this. You'll see it's angled to be mainly about the VC and what he believes.

ErikNorseman · 19/04/2012 07:52

It's pc gorn mad innit!

Hmm
gazzalw · 19/04/2012 07:56

do think political correctness is getting too much though. I very much dislike that in London halal meat seems to have become the norm in eateries by default

ErikNorseman · 19/04/2012 08:03

Has it? In all eateries? Or is it in curry houses mostly?

That's not political correctness, it's business. If you live in a high Muslim populated area and lots of them buy takeaways you will find the business owners respond to the market. Likewise this university looking to attract wealthy overseas students. It isn't a pc move, nor is it a Muslim conspiracy to alter the landscape of our country. Ot's about making money.

To be honest, I think the drinking culture amongst students is awful. So many young people die from alcohol related causes when at university and so much money is wasted when students drop out due to not doing any work due to being pissed all the time. I thought it was ridiculous when I was a student myself. Discouraging the alcohol culture a little bit would not be a bad thing.

ProPerformer · 19/04/2012 08:04

Alcohol free zones is fine - no student bars on campus.... Geez what would students do in their first year?!?!?!?!

Seriously though, I do doubt the reasons are just because of 'Muslims' but it does smack at 'being racist against 'our own kind' to show we're being inclusive of others' when all it really does is marginalise Muslims and other faith/race groups even more!

I remember a couple of years back at the school where I work there was one class with a Jehovah Witness kid in: At Christmas her teachers were told they were not allowed to play any Christmas music or do any Christmas related activities in her classes to 'respect her beliefs'! Needless to say all her class members were up in arms about this (she would have personally been happy for them to do Christmas stuff) and she got bullied do bad she ended up changing schools as a result!
When will people learn!!! sigh

thebody · 19/04/2012 08:06

I bet this hasn't been proposed by Muslims though?

EdithWeston · 19/04/2012 08:09

Can I just point out again the bit from the Metro article that's getting less attention here: that NUS supports alcohol-free zones in universities (for whatever reason) and that other universities (unspecified by the NUS, but I assume they know what they're talking about) already have them.

MrsSnow · 19/04/2012 08:20

When this story was new (about week or two ago) the head of the university was interviewed by Vanessa Feltz on BBC radio London and he admitted that financials was a large part of the decision. The bars were not making money.

Personally, as a muslim, I'm annoyed that this story is still doing the rounds as "make university friendly for muslims". Frankly those that want to drink will and those that don't won't.

Why it needs to bring out those horrible sentiments of "don't come here if you don't want to drink" etc is just silly. This is media stirring and it has consequences for people on a daily basis that the majority won't see or comprehend.

RevoltingPeasant · 19/04/2012 08:51

I think the thing about subsidised bars at universities is that they are subsidised and cheap.

I also think - depending on the institution - they provide a kind of 'safe haven' for students. I used to work at LargeRussellGroup University up north and the town scene was v expensive (champagne bars etc) and also quite rough. The SU bar was much more chilled out, pool tables and pints of bitter, less aggression/ shouting. I think a lot of female students felt happier there.

Personally, whilst I don't think the college bar should be the be-all and end-all, it is a bit of an institution and shame to see it go, esp in times when students are suffering so much debt and financial constraint.

They are universally grim though

pulledmuscle · 19/04/2012 09:15

YANBU, this argument of banning alcohol in university(ies) is ridiculous, and for the perpetrators to even suggest it makes me think they want to cause issues in the community. I'm muslim, i don't agree with anyone banning alcohol from establishments, everyone has a free mind and if muslims choose to believe in their faith, they can sit in a pub and not drink, it's not that hard. Of course, if there are other reasons for the ban, i.e student behaviour, vandalism, violence etc, they should put them at the forefront of their argument, instead of a baseless and trouble stirring assumption that we would all feel better if there was no alcohol.

exexe · 19/04/2012 09:26

I'm sure this has nothing to do with Muslims.
Most Muslims would not care and quite a few Muslims drink anyway and take part in the Uni social life.
The kind of Muslims they want to attract to study in the UK (ie rich and can afford the fees) may very well have more lax views on drinking.
I think people forget that a large proportion of the Muslim community are not very practicing.

CaramelFreddo · 19/04/2012 12:05

Going into a bar is optional - there's no need to ban them if the person doesn't want to use them - surely they can just walk on by.

However first year is all about cheap booze, drinking too much and snogging people that you spend the next 3/4 years avoiding. Geez uni would be no fun if the bars were shut.

Agree with a prev poster re halal meat too - it is not just in take aways the use in restaurants/ large arenas (twickenham and others) is becoming widespread. I feel very strongly about not eating halal meat and find it increasing difficult to avoid.

Original poster
HalfPastWine · 19/04/2012 12:23

I had issues with the whole Halal meat thing but having read up on it I believe that the animals are still slaughtered according to EU standards (whatever they are) and a representative of the Muslim faith recites a prayer over the meat to validate it as Halal. How true this is I'm not sure.

OP posts:
CaramelFreddo · 19/04/2012 12:27

The prayer being recited is usually a CD being played on a loop in most premises.

EdlessAllenPoe · 19/04/2012 12:31

this is a bit of a non-story really?

what's happening is: university bars are making less money. bar take fell every year i was at university (as grants went out) ..students are generally becoming, well...more studious.

therefore university bars are closing due to lack of demand.

LeQueen · 19/04/2012 12:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

exexe · 19/04/2012 12:38

I think that sounds about right HalfPastWine
I think most halal meat is stunned first. The 'prayer' is actually just 'In the name of God' in Arabic and is just played as a recording in the background.

Whitershadeofpale · 19/04/2012 12:44

I agree with endless in that this is a non-story. However I do think there are issues about how certain universities cater to Muslim students.

I attended a East London University (not the one in question) and left after a year (2004) in part due to this issue. My course was made up of 90% Muslims which I had no problem with, however, I was at times made to feel very uncomfortable. For example, I was once shouted at for eating a packet of crisps during Ramadan as I was apparently disrespectful to everyone. Although only one person shouted at me there were several people there who all looked but didn't say anything.

I was also regularly chastised if I mentioned going out anywhere that might involve drinking and was made very much to feel that it was them and me.

I then changed to another university that is very diverse and loved it and acheived much better results.

namerchanger · 19/04/2012 13:50

A bit of local tattle from one tutor, beefed up to go in the local rag.

Obviously not something suggested by the Muslim students.

Obvioulsy NOT something a university is going to do if it upsets 80% of its students or deters students from coming and buying very expensive courses there.

Most likely there is some truth to be read between the lines in that overall perhaps (with rising costs) students are statistically less likely to be at uni just for the social life.

Not difficult to guess what the OPs politial stance with regard to Muslims might be though is it

NotExtinct · 19/04/2012 15:56

what MrsSnow and pulledmuscle said ^^

slug · 19/04/2012 16:07

For many university students unions, receipts from bar tabs have been dropping for years. The days of cheap beer in the union bar are long gone and many students simply don't have the money, nor do their lifestyles support big drinking any more. These days they are more likely to make money out of bottled water than beer.

Student bars are closing across the country. This has very little to do with Muslims, and a lot to do with finance.