to feel seething resentment towards those who profited from the house price bubble and hot anger at the Governments who allowed it to happen?

[TartyMcFarty]

You'll have to forgive my naivety here - I'm ranting about something I don't really understand.

DH and I are stuck. In 2006 we bought a (modest) property on a 100% mortgage. Foolish in hindsight, I know, but based on the advice of our IFA, the unshakeable faith of our families and society that property ownership was the way to go, and the increasing pressure at the time to get on the ladder or miss out, that was the decision we made. We then found that the lender, bastard bastard Northern Rock were unwilling to remortgage based on our lack of equity, despite us having overpaid by several thousand pounds. We couldn't shift the place, and with the agreement of a different IFA, remortgaged against the equity in my DM's property (love her!). It gets more complicated than that, but that's all that's needed here. Now we still can't sell it , our tax credits have suddenly disappeared, my pension contribution has increased (DH doesn't even have a pension) and the tracker rate is slowly increasing. We're on interest only, and as I'm part time since the having DD, with another DC on the way, there's not much of a cushion.

What's really angered me over the last couple of days is the dawning realisation of how people just a few years older than us have profited from the massive increase in property 'values'. I'm still in touch with our ex-neighbour. She bought seven years earlier than us, sold at £120k profit after 10 years (this is not London!), her partner was in a similar situation so they have ended up comfortably in a property of twice the size, renovated to a really lovely standard. Obviously my resentment isn't directed at them personally - they're good people, have profited from a stupid market and good luck to them - but it's just an illustration.

How can we possibly hope to survive in a property market that boomed by more than 3.5x in this instance alone? We can't even afford to maintain our own home to a good standard. Pay isn't moving at all, and we're currently looking at less than .75 of a pension between us. I can't even bear to think about how we'll support our DCs through HE, and the risk to my DM's home if interest rates shoot up.

I just need a rant. Those of us stupid enough to be sucked in at high LTV rates towards the peak of the market are fucked all ways, whereas people just 5 years older than us are untouchable. I know I've only given one example for which I know the exact figures, but there are others I can think of in the same lucky situation. There just doesn't seem to be any point in trying when you compare our situation with those who profited so enormously in the 00s.

So you know people who boast about being comfortable so resent everyone else who bought early? If people you know boast, why not speak to them? I am younger than you but in the position you resent, I really don't get the point in your OP. Maybe it should be that you resent those that boast and don't get that your struggling, or are judgmental of your financial position.

But I do kind of resent those lucky buggers who are relatively so secure and have no reason to consider the repercussions for the rest of us. I know it's unreasonable and there's nothing anyone is going to do about it. I also worry that we're going to be left to take the hit.

The houses in our area that seem to sell the fastest are those in the £600K - £1,500,000K bracket!
The slowest moving are the smaller £150K - £300K family properties like ours. This is probably because people in OP's position cannot move up to the next rung of the ladder from starter homes.
I just don't know who can be buying these ridiculously priced homes!
I can only imagine they have either done very, very well in the property bubble, inherited loads of cash, taken on HUGE mortgages or won the lottery!
Even, in our position: lots of equity in our house & DH on pretty good salary, there is no way we could even stretch to £450K let alone £1.5million!
There is just such massive inbalance in the economy full stop...

imbalance even [blus]

But most do consider it, when thinking about our kids. As I said before I don't resent those people 4 years older than me (like my dbro) who could get a grant to go to uni. its not his fault, I certainly don't expect him to show how sorry for me he feels.

We bought at about the same time (not 100% mortgage though) and got a 5-year fixed rate, which we lived to regret and have only just got out of!

I don't think there's much point having 'seething resentment' towards those who made smarter (or luckier) decisions though, it's only going to make you unhappy and won't do any good. Better to focus your energies on trying to improve your situation, because you can't go back in time and change it.

I do think what saved us is that we didn't stretch ourselves to buy the biggest house in the nicest area we could afford, in fact we got a mortgage that we could cover with one of our salaries, which has eased the pressure a lot and allowed us to make decisions like me quitting the job I hated for a lower-paid one. Sometimes though I've regretted that choice though, certain things have happened that have made me wish dearly that we were in a 'nice' area, sometimes I've truly hated and feared living here, and I almost wish we'd taken the risk of pouring everything into getting somewhere nicer.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that we all make choices and live with the consequences, there's not much point really comparing yourself with others.

'I'm really not seeing our property as anything other than a place to live. Problem is, it's beginning to cost us more than we can afford, is too small for a family of four and we can't get rid of it because its value has tumbled.'

I have friends who are in your position and their solution was to rent out their home and move into a rental themselves. She is a TA and he is now working in the paint business in regional sales. When they had to make the decision about their home he had just set up his own retail paint/home decor business with two shops basically just as the bottom fell out of the house market and when people were beginning to stop the rush towards home improvement and decorating, etc. They had to close their shops and survive on her TA salary. They lived in a rental that was not half as nicely done up as their house but they managed to pay the mortgage and other charges on their house plus make a little on top of that out of the rent they charged and pay their rent out of her salary. He did odd jobs, barman at night, gardening, painting and decorating and eventually got another permanent job at which point they moved back into their house.

I am sorry for you and others in your situation. I just got in before the housing bubble burst, but a lot of my friends did not.

I think that there are a lot of people under 35 - but especially under 30, who just can't afford to get on the housing ladder.

If you have children in your early or mid 20s, which normally means there it less money spare for saving for a deposit, then it is even worse.

I am 38 and bought my first house in 1998 for 102k. That same house is now selling for 270k. We saved £7k for our deposit, but now you would need to save 30k. Except salaries haven't risen that much.

Why on earth is a 2 bed terrace too small for a family of 4? I have two sets of friends in your situation, both with 2 kids, one in a 2 bed flat and one in a 2 bed terrace. Both of them have accepted their lot and are making do whilst the situation rides out. You can put 2 children into one room you know? Even newborns. My friend with the 2 bed flat has a 4yo DD and another DD on the way, the second room is being kitted out for both as we speak. People have managed for years before and do now. It is all about expectation.

I am 5 yrs older than you (39), and so am one of the offending lot. However as many posters have said this has happened before. I bought a 1 bed flat aged 21 in 1994 for £28k. I sold it for £18K in 2001. Yep i took a £10k hit. I got help from family and paid that off over a couple of years. If i had kept it going i would have sold it a year later for £35k. Was i bitter? Well actually no. I sold for v personal reasons and realised that my happiness was worth more than £10k. Yes i kicked myself, but i shook it off and moved on.

You see, I blamed myself, not other people and not the govt.

Another thing, when i bought in 2004 the bank offered me 3.5 x my salary but the mortgage advisor advised me not to do it as it was too risky. Which bank was it? Northern Rock (see they werent all bad!) I too remember seeing colleagues in 1991 sweating their bollocks off over the 15% interest rate.

Me and DH bought in 2006, we will only just break even if we sold now, we are actually grateful for that, we would take a hit of £10k again if necessary. But it isnt necessary.

I am astounded your DM has secured some of her home on your property

My advice would be to move back into your house, kick out the lodger and do it the old fashioned way; make the best of what you have got.

Another thing, when i bought in 2004

sorry that should read 'when i bought in 1994'

I think at least part of the problem with people being unable to get on the housing ladder is the expectation that their first property should be a 4 bed perfect house, after years or decades of renting large properties people can be unwilling to step down to the kind of property that they can actually afford.

I've seen this first hand with my DBro and Dsis, both of whom put of and put off buying because they were not willing to step down to a smaller property (both could have bought perfectly reasonable small houses if they wanted to). Dbro eventually did buy as age 36 (large house, very overstretched, probably in negative equity but that doesn't matter ATM because they have no plans to move). Dsis and BIL still rent - they are not prepared to do without the detached property in the country with pony paddock (easy to rent in this area, very expensive to buy).

In my opinion they have pissed away £10's of thousands on property rental when they could have been buying. If you are paying out that kind of cash for a rental, you can afford to by something, even if it's not your dream property, it is a start.

I resented every penny I ever spent on rent, even as a student, and bought my first tiny, 3rd floor flat at the age of 21 (10% deposit and interest rate of 15.5%!). Every house I (later, we), bought was needing work, which we did, and sold on, and stepped up, until we had what we wanted (by age 34). It was hard work and risky - some profit we gained from market rises but others were because of the work we did. Our current property lost a lot of value but we are not in negative equity.

Many people who have got themselves well up the property ladder have got there by hard work, doing without holidays etc and taking financial risks quite early in life, so I think you ABU to resent that! Sometimes risks work out, sometimes they don't. I'm sure you would have been happy enough to be sitting on a big profit if things had worked out better for you, so it does sound like sour grapes!

Surprise surprise

www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=177512&st=0

You are all now proof that everyone that is not the members of HPC are quote thick as pigshit and that prices will indeed crash now the topic has made it on to mumsnet...... any minute now ...... yep any min .......

The cycle of good times and bad that people mention also refers to the boom and bust cycle.

The problem with the boom and bust cycle is that it tricks people into thinking the good times always come back.

We have had a massive boom from the end of world war 2 and it is now about to end, yes we have had a few busts along the way but start thinking of those busts as just "blips". We have a blip and then another big BOOM comes along

Look at house prices from 1950s onwards and then look what happened to them in the early 1970s, yes they started to boom, few blips now and again but overall its just one big BOOM.

So why did house prices start booming from the early 1970s, well this is when the gold standard was removed from the US Dollar and it was now possible to print money from nothing, No limits, as much as they want, when they want.

The housing boom you have seen is not really a housing boom, it is in fact just a side effect of lots of money being printed and lots of loans being granted.

It wasnt a house price bubble, it was a credit bubble.

What you are seeing happening in greece WILL be coming to britain at some point in the near future, britain is bankrupt and is currently quantative easing just to keep its head above water.

There are no green shoots of recovery and there will be no recovery (not in our lifetime anyway).

The Mainstream Media will tell you that things are on the up but thats just to keep the peace, (lots of things are happening in greece and the MSM are not telling the public what is REALLY happening.

The MSM exist to tell the people what the government/banks want them to hear, JERRY CAN=FUEL CRISIS=GDP UP ENOUGH TO AVOID RECESSION?the longer they can hide it from you then the more debt they can create.

People really need to start informing themselves of what is being done to them.

There are plenty of Blogs out there telling you what is really going on within the global economy and from this you should be able to MAKE UP YOUR OWN MINDS on what is about to happen to britains economy.

The government are already preparing for mass protests, not just our government, the US are going full throttle on ripping the constitution apart.

The Credit boom was created for the sole reason of getting as many people as possible into the maximum amount of debt possible.

The debt will make you more compliant to the laws that will be introduced once the collapse occurs.

FRACTIONAL RESERVE BANKING IS ABOUT TO DESTROY WESTERN CIVILIZATION AS WE KNOW IT.

Do not go looking to your government for answers.

Your government no longer work for you.

INFORM YOURSELVES

Hmm, we have a two-bed terrace and are wondering about how we'll find room for one baby, never mind two children! It can be done of course, and I know some people manage in one-bed flats for example. But I can understand how it might be difficult. For example we both work from home sometimes, and so the second bedroom is our home office as well as being the spare room, and also we like to sleep in separate rooms some of the time to get a better night's sleep (though that may be a thing of the past anyway with a new baby!).

It's also a problem of storage as well as actual space to put the cots/beds, apparently babies need a lot of stuff and absolutely every cupboard and underbed space is full already, every bit of wall that can have shelves on it already has, and they're full. We have no garage, no room for a shed and no access to the loft (long story). No idea where toys/books/clothes for a child would go - or nappies, bottles etc, or where we'd store a pram or buggy.

I agree though you have to make the best of what you've got, there's no point whining and there'll always be someone better (and worse) off than you are. We're having a big clearout right now in fact!

YANBU

My sister and her DH bought their first house, a 2 up 2 down, in 1979, for £3500. They sold it a couple of years later for £6000. They bought their second one for £7000, sold it a couple of years later for £13,000. They bought their next one for £24,000 and sold it when they divorced in 1984 for £48,000! She now has a lovely house with her new husband, with no mortgage, all basically thanks to those massive gains from the property market.

In 1988 my ex and I bought a 2 up 2 down for £65,000 - 18 times what my sister paid for a similar house 10 years earlier!

When we split up 4 years later it was in negative equity.

I have just checked on Rightmove however and those sort of houses are now worth £140,000.

So if < shudder > we had stayed together and weathered that storm we might well still be doing well out of it.

And you probably will too, in the future. It's hard to see it now though, I know.

Crumbs redshield - do you also walk down your High Street wearing a sandwich board declaring "The End Is Nigh"..?

Scary stuff

The house price bubble was a disaster for the whole economy and is the main reason why the economy is stuck in the doldrums at the moment. People like you, OP, are at the brunt of that but we're all suffering directly or indirectly. There's just too much of a debt overhang with the banks and households so that spending is strangled.

We 'cleverly' stayed out of the housing mania as we were just in a position to buy when the market hit its peak from 2005-2008 so for three years we rented and saved, convinced the market was going to crash. The pressure to buy from family and friends was enormous but I've studied economics and to me, it was just a classic mania / bubble that was going to burst. Little did I know the governments would actually underwrite the whole bubble at taxpayers' expense and bail out the banks for their dodgy lending! I never imagined that happening.

So DH and I bought in 2010 finally, having saved a good 25% deposit (the only way to get a mortgage by then anyway) and getting 15% off peak-price but still having to pay higher interest than those who had profited from the boom because we had less than 40% equity. We moved abroad unexpectedly and now can't cover the mortgage with the rental income from our UK house because we're paying a rate of 4.5% because of the relatively low equity in the house. I wish we'd never bought but it's hard. You need to start paying off somewhere eventually and it's hard to buy cash outright because prices are still high.

Property, in my view, is the biggest con going. If you buy at the right time, you can have it made, but there hasn't been a right time for the last 7+ years and there won't be a right time again for many years to come since we're in a global depression. The best time to buy property is when inflation is high - yes, it means interest rates are also high but if you can afford the repayments then you're fine because your mortgage is wiped out. A deflationary economy, which we've had for 10+ years now, is generally not a good period in which to buy property unless you can somehow find a bargain or buy for cash.

OP - those "lucky" ones, you haven't recognised that the older ones have lived through the price crashes of the early 90s, negative equity and huge interest rates. You haven't recognised that a lot of people the same age or younger have bought with deposits, our deposit was a lot of missed nights out, holidays, there's a lot of undrunk wine making up our equity.

It's not all luck that has lead to some people being in a better position, they made different choices, you took the choice to buy a property with 100% mortgage because you wanted to buy now rather than save up, you took the choice to buy in 2006 when even the most basic reseach from someone other than a person trying to sell you a mortgage would have suggested at the time that houseprices were high in relation to earnings so best case situation, they'd stay stable until wages 'caught up' but would probably fall at least in the short term. You took the decision to buy a house you could only afford if you continued to get a rate that was historically low.

If you want to get angry at someone, why are you not angry at yourself for taking on such a massive debt without seemingly thinking about it? Why is it the fault of people who lent you the money rather than you who borrowed it?

Ha, ha redshield, a visitor from housepricecrash I see! Still banging on the old 'end is nigh', 'it's happening, this weekend, I swear it's happening' on that site, are you?

Well, I guess it keeps people entertained...

Its shit. We did benefit massively. We bought a small terrace in a shit part of London in 1997 for 100k and sold it for 700k in 2007 (shit area became much sought after and trendy, which was a complete fluke for us) at the very peak of the market and rght before it went bust.

The people who bought from us bught on a big mortgage and sold two years later as couldnt keepup repayments (nosy neighbourtold us) they sold for20k LESS thanthey boughtitfor. Butal.

I hate all of this. I grew up in a council lat, most people Iknew livedinconcilproperties. It seemed a much more civilised way to live. Thatscapatalism for you, though - there are winners and losers...

The best way of judging the future is to look at the past. House prices are cyclical - they go up and down and will continue to do so. Shortage of housing in a small country, increasing population and an intrinsic desire to own property will ensure the long-term survival of the housing market.

Nay sayers can knock themselves out trying to convince us that house prices will crash and we're all doomed but imo they'd be better off spending their time saving for a deposit!!

Sit tight OP, you've bought your house and things will get better

Nope, no sandwich boards.

I myself am priced out of buying a home as i was born too late, i was sick and tired of sitting around watching the MSM tell me that families can no longer afford to house themselves (obviously this is a bad situation to be in for a family) now picture the single people of the poulation, its not easy to buy a home when 2 wages are coming in and its pretty much impossible to do when you are single and only have one wage to pay all the bills with.

Thats when it clicked for me.

The MSM no longer mentions single people being priced out, just the families they like to mention. I do not agree with a family not being able to house themselves in this day and age obviously. So we have the MSM saying its an absolute nightmare for a family to house themselves but refusing to mention single people.

So then i chose to make my own mind up on what was going to happen to houseprices, i read up on everything i could to do with the housing market and my last post was the conclusion i came to.

Its a pretty popular conclusion and it turns out in some circles its common knowledge.

2007 Was our absolute peak standard of living, its now all down hill from here.

All the information you require to inform yourselves of what is going on is freely available on the net, its not on the MSM news sites its all in the blogs.

This is the bit where i tell you to read my blog......................... not really as i havent got one.

I wouldnt take a penny debt on now, even if a mortgage was thrown at me at 0% for 25 years.

I'm confused. If you had a 100% mortgage why did you need to re-mortgage?

Current mortgage deal ends.

All 5year fixed 2007 mortgages will have to be renewed this year.

Interest only mortgage holders are going to have a hard time staying on interest only if they dont have a decent amount of equity.