to feel seething resentment towards those who profited from the house price bubble and hot anger at the Governments who allowed it to happen?

[TartyMcFarty]

You'll have to forgive my naivety here - I'm ranting about something I don't really understand.

DH and I are stuck. In 2006 we bought a (modest) property on a 100% mortgage. Foolish in hindsight, I know, but based on the advice of our IFA, the unshakeable faith of our families and society that property ownership was the way to go, and the increasing pressure at the time to get on the ladder or miss out, that was the decision we made. We then found that the lender, bastard bastard Northern Rock were unwilling to remortgage based on our lack of equity, despite us having overpaid by several thousand pounds. We couldn't shift the place, and with the agreement of a different IFA, remortgaged against the equity in my DM's property (love her!). It gets more complicated than that, but that's all that's needed here. Now we still can't sell it , our tax credits have suddenly disappeared, my pension contribution has increased (DH doesn't even have a pension) and the tracker rate is slowly increasing. We're on interest only, and as I'm part time since the having DD, with another DC on the way, there's not much of a cushion.

What's really angered me over the last couple of days is the dawning realisation of how people just a few years older than us have profited from the massive increase in property 'values'. I'm still in touch with our ex-neighbour. She bought seven years earlier than us, sold at £120k profit after 10 years (this is not London!), her partner was in a similar situation so they have ended up comfortably in a property of twice the size, renovated to a really lovely standard. Obviously my resentment isn't directed at them personally - they're good people, have profited from a stupid market and good luck to them - but it's just an illustration.

How can we possibly hope to survive in a property market that boomed by more than 3.5x in this instance alone? We can't even afford to maintain our own home to a good standard. Pay isn't moving at all, and we're currently looking at less than .75 of a pension between us. I can't even bear to think about how we'll support our DCs through HE, and the risk to my DM's home if interest rates shoot up.

I just need a rant. Those of us stupid enough to be sucked in at high LTV rates towards the peak of the market are fucked all ways, whereas people just 5 years older than us are untouchable. I know I've only given one example for which I know the exact figures, but there are others I can think of in the same lucky situation. There just doesn't seem to be any point in trying when you compare our situation with those who profited so enormously in the 00s.

Yellow wellies, strangly reading this thread earlier, I too thought of the cages/homes I'd seen in Kowloon, thinking it could all get worse.
Also agree that we haven't actually had the worst of the recession yet........and for strange timing, while reading this thread, I opened my CC statment to find that they've upped my limit by another £1500...WTF are they not meant to be restricting credit?

I rather saw that as the oomph I need to flog this place and go into rented for a wee while whilst we see what happens to the market. We're thinking of moving south from somewhere cheap (Orkney) to somewhere more pricey (Central Belt) so am thinking of waiting again before buying. Am up the duff (and that's the main reason for the move to be close to family with young kids so that we can raise them together and the kids can be close) so not sure we can be bothered to take on another fixer-upper (which is the only thing that would give us the space we need at a price we can afford, and yep we are on £80k so what does that say about the market?) - whereas we can rent somewhere massive and save much more money if we rent for a while. There are so many accidental landlords out there at the moment rents are cheap compared to mortgages in much of Scotland. But yes very difficult to know what to do best. 'Who dares wins Rodders?' eh???

That's very wierd LL because Barclaycard are constantly lowering my limit. Each time I pay a bit more off, they lower my limit down. I'm quite happy for them to do it though... I'll cut the thing up when it's paid off.

Labrador sounds like you are just good with money and considered low risk. It seems to be extending credit to those considered unlikely to pay it back is what's been limited (hence the rise of alternatives like Wonga or Cash for Gold sites), which really is a pretty good idea in the long run isn't it?

It's past 9 o'clock in the evening, and just for fun, I've worked out how much I could spend on credit RIGHT NOW.

Debit card on current account. Overdraft limit is £5k. I am not overdrawn. So let's call that one £5k.

Credit card (my one and only). Credit limit is £12k. I pay this off every month, and there is nothing due. Let's call that one £12k.

AMEX card. This is work-related. I am obligated to have it in order to claim my expenses from work (gigantic kick-back dodge). This card has no limit but de facto, they turn the tap off when it gets to £100k.

So gals, the night is young and we have £117k to spend. Shall we spend it? Or not?

Headfairy have you just paid off a lot of CC debt? the Halifax lowered my limit when I kept on doing this and halved it when I cleared the card (counter intuitive isn't it? But I think they don't like seeing someone with a lot of unused credit). I guess it also depends on the lender, some are healthier than others (i.e HSBC doing v well on the back of Asian prosperity, Santander tottering on the brink of a lot of dodgy Spanish property loans)

I'd spend the work one and do a dodgy canoeing accident like those folk from Northumbria Kidding! I wouldn't!

House prices are cyclical. It is a bummer when you buy at the top, we did in 1988 then dh lost job and we had to move to find work 4 years later. Couldn't sell for 10 more years as we had endowment mortgage and negative equity. so we were landlords for years and living in rented ourselves. Mad world. We count ourselves lucky now as it has all worked out but only because we bought a wreck in '96 with loads of help from family.

Hopefully, that would buy a lot of shoes!

£117k! You could buy a house for that round here...

I'll say it again.

We didn't buy to make a profit. We bought to get a foot on the ladder while (we thought) we were able. We overpaid by £12k in 2 years but ended up unable to stay with Northern Rock and unable to mortgage with another lender as the value had dropped and we were in neg equity. We equally didn't buy to make a loss.

The point about 15% interest rates doesn't even anything out from where I'm standing. 15% on a £30k property is more affordable than 6% on £150k (I think!! ).

I don't think the baby boomers are so much more to blame than the 40-somethings who have profited big from the 00 boom either.

Again, I really don't believe this is part of a sustainable cycle. House prices are inflated way beyond wage inflation, so I don't see that things will improve if we.wait it out.

Oh, and I repeat, I didn't say I hated anyone. I still can't help resenting the lucky sods whose 'paper' thousands have paid for huge proportions of their larger properties so they are able to benefit from the best interest rates.

Tarty, 'seething resentment towards those who profited' I think is what people are responding to.

Op i do understand, as someone in my 20's

Im surrounded by people in the 40/50 age bracket who

-Have made huge amounts on property (a million pounds profit in one case from doing nothing but living in it)

-Have no student loan debt

-Have had time to climb up the ladder and gain big bonuses- but no doubt some of these people couldnt even get work experience now if they were in their 20's

-the positions they are in also enable free mobiles and even cars, benefits they feel entitled to. Oh and free airmiles

-No debt as always had enough to live off

-Some inherited large amounts of money too

Im pleased for people who have worked hard and got there, but what grates is the ones who cant recognise how things are now and look down their nose

Yes starwisher, and seem to assume that somehow we now work less hard.

And by the way, the young will certainly suffer, but it's already happening!

'I don't think the baby boomers are so much more to blame than the 40-somethings who have profited big from the 00 boom either.'

Oh do stop blaming people. Baby-boomers. 40-somethings for having had the temerity to have been born at a certain time and to have bought their homes at a certain price. Yes, it's tough for you now but you are young, both in work and have some hope of increased salaries in the future.

Headfairy Yellowwellies Barclaycard and my balance is £40. I try to spend on it every month so that I've got easy access credit in a SHTF scenario, but I have thousands of unused credit.

( ponders over applying for CC's for the labradors )

Plenty of the 40-somethings found themselves in negative equity in the early 90s. House prices plummeted in a way that would make your eyes water in comparison to the current slump. House prices go up and down. They always have and always will. Yes, it is shit when you're caught on the wrong side of it but feeling 'seething resentment' that others are in a better position than you is a pointless waste of effort that will just leave you bitter and twisted.

'I don't think the baby boomers are so much more to blame than the 40-somethings who have profited big from the 00 boom either.'

I'm one of those 40-somethings that profited (well I haven't really because I'm still living in the house which has appreciated). We had our share of troubles when we were younger, hasn't been all 'la-di-di lots of lovely cash'.

I had a longish period of unemployment in yorkshire in my early twenties from which I never got a single penny from the gov. while I lived in a room full of grey furry hold and mice. Later I moved south to be with DH and we lived pay check to pay check trying to figure out which bill to pay and I cried on the phone to my mother when our one car (which got us to both our jobs) blew its head gasket on the M4. The AA towed it (thank you for that lovely pressie mum and dad!) and we walked home because we couldn't afford a taxi. All i can say is thank goodness for value priced 20p baked beans. I would have been a lot hungrier without them!

I had some friends who owned a house in south london and the dh lost his job, he got a new job in another part of the country but mum had to stay in london to try and sell their (underwater) house while they lived apart for about 12 months. It was miserable for them and I many times wished I could win the lottery so I could buy their house from them. There were a lot of people with negative equity at that time :(

So yeah, a little unreasonable to be resentful that people of my age have something going for them now and you don't.

DH and I are 50ish. I'm really sorry you feel seething resentment towards us. I bought my first flat in 1982. It was a huge struggle and I had to take a lodger. In the first year or two my social life was curtailed (no money) and I was working 12-14 hours a day in the City. Out of the house at 6.30, home often at 8.30ish. Stressful job, very insecure but held on a built a reputation. When I first bought friends said I was made, stupid, what a commitment. Then they said I was ruining my life by working so hard and they wouldn't do that for any amount of money.

In 1987 I bought my first house - bit more comfy then. Met DH just afterwards. DH was really struggling to make his way but I supported him in the early years and when we met he was on the verge of giving up his lifelong ambition because he didn't feel he had the class or the cash to get through the next two/three years. Lots of people said I was mad to do that. We got married in 1991 and bought a house together in 1994. Took a huge risk with it because area was under development.

I gave up work when ds came along and totally supported DH who worked all the hours that got sent, week in (and weekend) and week out. Ran the house, ran the dc, looked after myself and DH and didn't expect him to get bogged down in domestic stuff and it was tidy and calm when he came home. Same old people said "I wouldn't do that, I wouldn't stand for that, you let him take advantage". Well I did and it allowed him to build a reputation and a successful career.

We didn't get fat by luck alone OP. It took hard work, it took not running with the herd, it took being pleased and pleasant for and to others. There were some lucky breaks; there was also careful planning and calculated risks. We certainly didn't waste time worrying about what others had and comparing ourselves to them.

There were plenty who tried to pour cold water on us on our way up; they are the same ones we have watched become bitter with their lot (but they wouldn't have done what we did to get there) and now some of them, the ones who are still local and whose dc started in reception with ds will occasionally make a cutting little remark about it's alright for you, you're so lucky, its really hard for us. Well they are the same ones who wouldn't have put up with their dh working and missing parents evening or working and having to attend an event on their own.

Property is swings and roundabout - have seen both; just as relationships are marriage are swings and roundabouts but life is what you make it and you can always the most of it by focusing on your own and making it as good as you can rather than being bitter and seething because someone else has more than you.

Those in their 20s and 30s are doing the hard yards when expenses are high and work is hard and children are demanding. Those times pass and the grass is greener but don't for one minute think that those who are 20/30 years older than you haven't done their own hard yards and gritted their teeth and got through. I remember thinking how lucky my parents were when the dc were tiny and their mortgage was paid and there was spare cash and free time. Your turn will come OP but only if the change your outlook and be glad of what you have; if you don't you will become bitter and luck doesn't cling to the bitter I fear.

Good grief hopefully, my Barclaycard limit is £650, I currently have £400 on it which I'll pay off over the next couple of months. My current account overdraft limit is £2000, no company cc, so I could get my hands on the princely sum of £2650 right now.

YellwWellies, not paid off a large amount of credit recently, just been nibbling away at it, but it was never massive, about £700 iirc.

Marriedinwhite - the good times won't ever come for a lot of younger people though, not financially at any rate.
People who have worked as hard as you will still be paying off their mortgages for far longer because their houses cost twice as much without the wage inflation to cover the increase.

(I'm one of the lucky ones - 40 years old so got the free education and bought a house in time.)

The point I was making was about the ease of availability of credit, even in the middle of the credit crunch. Banks aren't very responsible IMO.

I'm only 40 but even I realised that house prices can go up and down, as well as stocks.

I bought in late 2003 but I had a decent deposit. I bought a flat and then a house, both run down and have worked hard and made sacrifices to redo each one.

I don't consider myself lucky.

In fact I had hummed and hummed before deciding to buy the flat because the newspapers already had stories about how house prices could not keep on going up.

Not sure how you missed that OP.
Sometimes it pays to watch the news and read newspapers. :)

And learn your history.

Sorry, but that's true. I'd feel sorry for you if you hadn't been resentful of others.

op - if you'd been in the position to buy a house in the 1990s or in any of the other favourable periods prior to that, would you not have bought? And therefore profited? Most people I know buy house to keep a roof over their heads not to play property tycoon. How would you feel if other younger buyers felt 'seething resentment' over what was merely a matter of timing?

And what librarian said. We bought a one-bed cottage in 1987 - all we could afford. Ds1 was sleeping in our room for 6 m until we bit the bullet got a 125% mortgage and moved to a 3 bed terrace. When we moved again 18m ago we had equity but not as much as we might have had if our timings were better - we have friends who got it right and are now mortgage free. We'll be paying ours off until I retire and after dh has retired! I will confess to feeling a touch envious of my friends but not for long and not very much. Seething resentment is quite another thing though