to feel seething resentment towards those who profited from the house price bubble and hot anger at the Governments who allowed it to happen?

[TartyMcFarty]

You'll have to forgive my naivety here - I'm ranting about something I don't really understand.

DH and I are stuck. In 2006 we bought a (modest) property on a 100% mortgage. Foolish in hindsight, I know, but based on the advice of our IFA, the unshakeable faith of our families and society that property ownership was the way to go, and the increasing pressure at the time to get on the ladder or miss out, that was the decision we made. We then found that the lender, bastard bastard Northern Rock were unwilling to remortgage based on our lack of equity, despite us having overpaid by several thousand pounds. We couldn't shift the place, and with the agreement of a different IFA, remortgaged against the equity in my DM's property (love her!). It gets more complicated than that, but that's all that's needed here. Now we still can't sell it , our tax credits have suddenly disappeared, my pension contribution has increased (DH doesn't even have a pension) and the tracker rate is slowly increasing. We're on interest only, and as I'm part time since the having DD, with another DC on the way, there's not much of a cushion.

What's really angered me over the last couple of days is the dawning realisation of how people just a few years older than us have profited from the massive increase in property 'values'. I'm still in touch with our ex-neighbour. She bought seven years earlier than us, sold at £120k profit after 10 years (this is not London!), her partner was in a similar situation so they have ended up comfortably in a property of twice the size, renovated to a really lovely standard. Obviously my resentment isn't directed at them personally - they're good people, have profited from a stupid market and good luck to them - but it's just an illustration.

How can we possibly hope to survive in a property market that boomed by more than 3.5x in this instance alone? We can't even afford to maintain our own home to a good standard. Pay isn't moving at all, and we're currently looking at less than .75 of a pension between us. I can't even bear to think about how we'll support our DCs through HE, and the risk to my DM's home if interest rates shoot up.

I just need a rant. Those of us stupid enough to be sucked in at high LTV rates towards the peak of the market are fucked all ways, whereas people just 5 years older than us are untouchable. I know I've only given one example for which I know the exact figures, but there are others I can think of in the same lucky situation. There just doesn't seem to be any point in trying when you compare our situation with those who profited so enormously in the 00s.

It's a waste of your life to feel "seething resentment" - it isn't worth it.

Whatever your situation, the only way to move through and beyond it is to take responsibility for what has happened. No one forces anyone to buy a house or enter into debt of any description. It's tricky though, especially when surrounded by atmospheres like the housing bubble where every TV programme and person on the street is telling you to buy. The only answer is to free your mind, see a situation as clearly as you can and make your choice. Then live with and accept the consequences.

@RedShield. Your fear is stressing you out, you need clinical help before you get locked up or committed to a psycho ward.

WRT the Rockefellers why do they spend so much money looking to improve human life? Just look here www.rockefellerfoundation.org/ or here en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_D._Rockefeller for what this chap achieved. Sure secrecy doesnt help matters but trust takes years to build up and can be destroyed in the blink of an eye, any person who has had a cheating partner will know what I mean! If these individuals wanted you dead how do you think they will kill you? Theres now 7billion+ people on this planet of finite resources. Do you think a few individuals can kill that many people? Get Real! Selectively choosing the facts you want to believe and ignoring others is not healthy.

Do you know how many poor people there are in the world? 1.2 Billion.
www.rockefellerfoundation.org/news/press-releases/1-2-billion-people-live-poverty

Do you know what its like to live in a shanty town with no food or clean water for example?

The simple fact of the matter is the vast majority of peoples expectations are raised too high or put bluntly we have too many ?Prince? and ?Princesses? in the world who think the world owes them a living. Not surprising really when you consider so many people are bombarded by psychologically clever advertising designed to make you want what ever the business is selling and if you don?t buy it, the adverts make you feel inadequate like you life has a vacuum. Just look at car adverts, roads with fantastic scenery with no traffic, what a dream world! There?s a reason why Govts decided to ban certain adverts aimed at children until after the watershed, it was to give the parents a break from their kids becuase it could see there are many lazy weak mind people around today.

But its balancing act between keeping the ignorant masses engaged in activities which generally benefit society by rewarding them with their token pieces of paper aka money so that they can choose what food to put on the table or what colour paint to slap on the wall of their shelter in the false belief that will instantly increase their slave box by £10k or what differently sized bits of veneer covered chip board to put up in their kitchens to add another fictional £15k to the value of their shelter, and getting the true innovators, the ones who really make a difference for the benefit of mankind to work their magic, beit Louis Pasteur, Alan Turin, Jack Kilby or Robert Noyce to name just a few.

Put bluntly, whilst the internet keeps many time rich cash poor individuals occupied and out of trouble to a degree, if you had any intelligence you would be making a proper difference to mankind instead of projecting your own fears onto others by exploiting their own ignorance and confusing them at best. What have you done for mankind except spread your fears? Have you made any innovation that will benefit mankind in a major way?

Here is something else for you to consider. Do you know why ethnic cleansing doesn?t work? Chaos theory. Humans can not predict which individual will be the next major innovator, lets face it humans still cant even genetically engineer a baby yet, we are only a few years away from being able to play ?God? but not quite there yet. Humans cant even control their emotions as we see with the sheeple flooding into property over the last decade voting in Labour who promised more benefits without realising they were slowly bankrupting the country and creating the problems many are now suffering. Those Labour voters are just like Turkeys voting to ban Xmas! Desires are weaknesses. However history will repeat until such times humans can control their emotions or they accept Govts need to protect some of them from themselves.

Another point. Humans have not invented and adopted a new system to replace the current version of Law and Finance yet. This is the current universally adopted system on the planet ie the best we have with deviations like tax breaks, tax rates (vat or sales taxes) on different products and services along with different laws determining what can and cant be done depending on what land masses you are currently positioned on. Even China is trying to bring in Democracy at an uber fast rate and have been moving away from Communism to Capitalism using what the Scottish chap (cant remember his name) who administered Hong Kong when the UK took it from China all those years ago as their template for Capitalism.

So is it any wonder when you consider the system of finance, human emotion & intelligence why you now have a vast section of society who are zombie housholds, who let their greed get the better of them using IO mortgages with no accompanying investment vehicle to pay off the debt or Liar Loans? Ignorant chancers who cant manage a few pennies. Whats the hardest lessons some will learn, losing their pile of bricks perhaps. Emotional attachment to inanimate objects is never healthy but some lessons need to be learnt.

Let me ask you this question. Would life not be much easier if this planet had a universal set of rules so that in this globe trotting holidays abroad life we can all lead, you know what?s what, what ever piece of landmass one should touch down on? Would it not be easier if holiday makers don?t fall foul of local laws or a small business trying to branch out abroad knows the laws to recover bad debts for example? If you think it?s a good idea that so many people can speak English around the world and that you can travel the world and still communicate with the locals, what about having a universal law and financial system?

So until such time a new system has been developed for Law and Money to evolve into and more importantly the ignorant masses have had time to learn and get used to the idea of a new universal system aka the New World Order with something to protect the ignorant, I would suggest you at least get outside and enjoy what this planet has to offer and some sunshine because if your fears become reality do you want to have wasted the opportunities this planet and your fellow men have to offer being stuck in front of the computer all this time?

Get out there and spread the word it might be fun.

Sidenote: When people are in front of computers or phones, because the written word only accounts for about 7% of human communication (93% being body language ie facial expressions) if you read this text or any other text off a computer or phone and it comes across negative to you, then you are simply projecting your personal feelings to fill the body language void that written words can not fill.

RedShield, can you give us some sort of timing on things, as stocking up on food, medicines etc, they would expire after a few months/years.

Yanbu, we are a few years behind you and have therefor never even managed to get on the ladder, it makes me feel like crying, our rent is skyrocketing on a yearly basis ...Then again life could be worse, in other ways we are very lucky compared to a lot of the world, I often have to remind myslef of this!

NoOneSpecial.

Ive seen what brussels has done to britain.

No i dont want a one world government.

amillionyears.

I dont have all the answers, i myself think that by the end of the year the eurozone will have collapsed.

Once the money stops flowing, so does the oil, for a time at least.

Look what happened when some politician said jerry can on the news, what do you think will happen in britain once the eurozone starts to collapse.

The government are already preparing for mass panic/protests.

havent caught up with the last 24hrs of thread so apologies if im repeating

it makes me cross that some people think the baby boomers had it so easy and are now skipping all the way to the bank,they are all not wealthy and on cruises

some are as is there will always be rich/poor people

some that have done well have worked all their lives and really struggled in the first parts of there lives,they didnt morgage themselves up to the hilt for a 3bed detached,alot started of a the parents or a 1-2 bed flat with hardly any furniture and certainly not the gadgets and what some call luxuries we take for granted

also not everybody retired on a great pension,some either didnt have a private one or worked for the public sector (why do so many mumsnetters think everybody works for the public sector and has a golden handshake)

it must be my humble background but i was and still are surrounded by,builders,mechanics,dinner ladies,shop workers,no wacking great pensions in them jobs before or now

they worked bloody hard for what theyve got if they have anything

and also didnt have the luxury of parent bailing them out or stumping up cash for deposits etc as the generation before them had trouble even feeding there familys

and i think to remorgage against your mother in laws property is cheeky,how could you take that risk with somebody elses home

and thank god your mother in law obviously done so well (out of the rises you so hate)as if the rises hadnt of happened you would not of been able to use her asset to your own gain ,would you not???????????????????????

so yes you are being unreasonable

Am I the only wondering if red is has been moved to david Cameron's 'spam' list? And maybe another more serious 'watch' type of list.

I am thinking this has the makings of a good novel.

OP in despair
Realises government is out to get her
Redshield has last minute info delivered to OP i the nick of time (Jack Bauer style)
Saves the world
Celebrates with naice ham and tea

Dprince

Cameron our beloved leader has been caught lying on quite a few occasions up to now, he still has plenty of lies left in him.

Seeing as he is supposed to work for us i think ill keep asking him questions.

Im still waiting on a response about the cash for access corruption that the police have seemed to have forgotten about, ill let you know if he ever answers.

Gordon brown was all in favour of a new world order, he kind of rammed that home in his new world order speech, i see no reason why cameron is any different.

Or i can sit and do nothing whilst fractional reserve banking forces people to commit suicide or starve to death.

redshield, im glad you are doing this stuff, but make sure you get some other balance in your life as well.Else it might well consume you, which isnt going to help you or others.

It doesnt consume me.

Im too busy trying to get a permanent roof over my head to let it consume me, thats the reason i started looking into what was going on.

This youtube video should help to clear up the whole iraq thing....what goes on in iraq-iraq veterans against the war............This will never ever make it onto the bbc news. Not a chance, its not a graphic video showing the death and destruction in case people are wondering, its just soldiers talking about their time in iraq

Its got less than ten thousand views whilst the latest manufactured boy band video gets millions.

The soldiers are not happy about what is REALLY going on within our governments

I do hate the line 'we worked damn hard for what we've got' because it implies the young today, because they have nothing to show for their labours - mustn't be working very hard. WRONG. To buy a house today the young must literally work TWICE AS HARD as those buying in the 90s. Let's do the maths and think about it in terms of hours worked, using a 52 week year of 37 hours a week.The average wage in 1998 was £17k which works out at an hourly rate of £8.83. To earn enough to pay for the average house (£60k at this time) it took 6,791 working hours. The 2012 average wage is £25k which works out at an hourly rate of £12.99. So for a £160k house it now takes 12,317 working hours.

If you found it hard in your day, apologies, but I think it likely that with the same amount of effort you put in (no doubt truly working hard) you'd actually be on the streets if you were doing it again today. The young today are working very hard (longer hours, unpaid weekends of work the norm for many, working decades longer before retirement - the new retirement age being 73 if you are 33 or younger) but have literally nothing to show for it. Nothing. They have maybe, if they are lucky paid of their uni debts, but more likely just provided some fat to the back up pension of some amateur landlord hoarding starter homes as investments and renting them to the same people he has priced out of the market. And I can tell you one thing for sure, being told how hard you worked, by someone who's working weeks were hours shorter, who's working lives are decades shorter, and someone who came from a generation that is slowly pulling up the ladder behind them (final salary pensions, free education, etc etc) is not wise - at some point the young will be the electoral majority and they won't hesitate to strip the goodies that the older generations have given themselves (non means tested benefits) if those same oldies continue looking down their noses at the young for not working hard. Think of it as redistributing that unearned wealth and paying for some of the national debts you've shackled us with. That £200k profit on your house wasn't due to your financial acumen or wisdom or slapping on some paint, you happened to buy at the right time and sell at the right time and the money didn't come from nowhere - it is being paid for by the mug who bought your house. Who will have to work twice as hard to afford to live in your house, all things being equal, as you did. Enjoy that retirement, but perhaps you might want to wonder why none of your kids can afford to give you grandkids???

OP YANBU but you were a muppet for getting a 100% mortgage and not doing your own research. IFAs are muppets with a huge vested interest in getting folks to buy - because they can't earn a living unless you do. It's like asking a hairdresser if you need a haircut for god's sake!!! Admittedly though everyone and his dog were probably urging you to get on the ladder, before you miss the boat. It's the classic sign of a bubble. Redshield you've done a great job of derailing this thread btw! I'm a truther and am well aware of PO, the fractional reserve bubble etc but that is not what the OP was asking about (yes yes it might all be interlinked) and you come across as a crackpot...

Yellow wellies.

Seeing as you have got the divide and conquer thing covered regarding having a pop at people who were born earlier ill just leave that bit to you.

I myself am the younger generation, if i was offered what the older generation was offered i would have taken it.

If both generations sat down and looked at all the evidence available to them then the arguments would stop, thats also when the shouting at the government would start.

I'm not having a pop at anyone regardless of age - but I am having a pop at those who place the blame at the feet of the young 'for not trying hard enough'. The only folks who profit out of rising house prices are ultimately the bankers. But jeez it annoys me that it seems to have taken the average Brit a decade to realise that rising living costs = a bad thing. I mean we don't all whoop when our gas bills go up so why celebrate a housing bubble? Oh yes, because we hope, by being a little higher up in the ponzi that we might make some unearned wealth out of housing. Well that unearned wealth doesn't come from nowhere - see those kids being dropped off at nursery at 7am, collected when it's dark - so many people sitting pretty in houses way beyond their needs, worth far more than they ever dreamed of, tut at this but seem to be unable to correlate the two situations. And whilst folk tut at those who bought using 100% mortgages, their families who encouraged them do seem to go very quiet when the market tanks don't they?

This thread is fascinating. Such an unexpected twist!

Thats kind of what im getting at.

Italy,spain,portugal, france are on the verge of collapse yet people seem blissfully unaware to the fact that when the reset occurs it will effect every aspect of their lives and not just the roof over their head.

The bbc news is currently reporting that the USA is doing a great job of its recovery, this is a blatant lie.

If people were told the truth they would soon start to realize that the 99 year old ponzi scheme is about to come to an end in one way or another.

Roundtable.

You wont need to wear a tinfoil hat if you watch the money as debt video on youtube, thats just how money works, cant really argue with maths.

It is completely impossible to pay back the debts.

The numbers on the computer screen will never be paid back.

WTAF is going on here? i was enjoying a bit of healthy debate on this thread yesterday until redshield came along with 'its' conspiracy theories and provocative talk of living in athletic stadia

seriously mate - STFU

marthasharbour,agree can we get back to op's starting topic i think its putting people of now with redshields talk

redshields please start your own thread,what you have to say will intrest many im sure but it is begining to take over the original thread

just a suggestion

I have been thinking loads about this today.

It's such a weird situation for everyone in the UK.

We rent, and yet still we're such a curiosity amongst our friends - why haven't we bought anything. Or rather when will we buy something

I can see that we are very guilty of becoming accustomed to an area that we can't really afford, but whilst we can scrape by, we do. We honestly believe our children are better off in this area - safe, space, good schools, loads of friends. Only time will tell whether we're right to stick it out.

I dont rent, but if I were at the moment, I would not see it as a bad thing , generally speaking. interest rates cannot go down, and cannot stay the same forever. It is going to be tough when they go up. not a HPC doom monger senario, imo, just continued houseprice stagnation.

I'm going to ignore the tin-foil-hattery (and I'm a tin foil hatter with the best of them but this isn't the place) and continue with the OP's topic.

I'm curious as a lot of posters seem to be saying 'the economy will pick up soon' and therefore house prices will start rising again. On what basis? I don't see the economy ever returning to the levels of the debt fuelled binge of the last decade. Certainly this decade will be spent in a hangover like state - paying back the excess of the last ten years. We spent this decade's worth of GDP in consumer debt between 2000 and 2010. Mervyn King said that 2010-20 will be the nasty decade and he's right - we have to pay the piper. The last decade was NOT normal. We are returning to more normal levels of debt today. This is the new normal. MEWing equity from your house to buy a new car, holiday, kitchen every few years was not normal. If you want these things now you'll have to work for them. Everyone who didn't have a house to act as a bankcard / one armed bandit had to work for them over the last decade. Join the club.

Also the folks saying 'oh we had to take on massive mortgages to get on the ladder, it's always hard' are failing to consider the impact of globalisation on UK wages. Historically large mortgages were inflated away by high inflation and wage inflation. We do indeed have high inflation today but we do not, and I don't see how we can (given competition from India and China) have wage inflation. Therefore large mortgages won't be inflated away this time - with rising living costs they'll get ever harder to deal with (unlike the 70s). If you can see that the UK can genuinely compete and beat China, Brazil and India I'd be curious to hear how and why? (given that we pissed our natural resources away, our work ethic ain't as good, loads of Brits don't make the most of the free education offered to them, and that we are uncompetitive because our house prices require high wages). So yes we might have to get used to being a small insignificant island again....