To still be angry about this, and to want to do something about it?

[muminthecity]

This is much longer than I intended, sorry!

Last week I went out with 3 friends, one woman, 2 men; they are all black, I am white (this is relevant.) We had dinner together at friend's house, then went to a bar we often visit. We had a great time, had quite a bit to drink but none of us were particularly drunk. We had a good dance, then when the bar was closing we decided to continue our night at a club just up the road from where we were. When we arrived the club was busy but not heaving, and a we saw people coming and going as we approached. When we got to the door, my 2 male friends were slightly ahead of me and my other friend, so it was not obvious that the four of us were together. The bouncer stopped my friends from going in, as we caught up with them we heard the bouncer tell them that they couldn't go in as they were wearing trainers. Fair enough, we all said, and were about to leave when friend A looked over at the smoking area (an enclosure at the front of the club, just behind the bouncer) and noticed that there were loads of men wearing trainers, these men were all white.

At the same time, other people were entering the club behind us, so it was not as if it were full to capacity, or near closing. Friend A questioned why there were several men already in the club wearing trainers. The bouncer stuttered and stammered and said something about management having the right to refuse entry. Friend B (also black male) asked the bouncer to reiterate the reasons we weren't allowed to enter. Was it because they were wearing trainers or because the management had told him not to let us in? The bouncer just apologised and said he could not let us in. Another bouncer (female, but not sure that's relevant) came over and asked the first bouncer if there was any trouble. Bouncer 1 says no, no trouble. Bouncer 2 then tells us we're not getting in so may as well piss off. Friend A again asks for a reason and is told that it is because he is wearing trainers. He then tells bouncer 2 about all of the other people we can clearly see wearing trainers. She says no, noone is allowed in in trainers. We are all pissed off now, as we can clearly see all other people in trainers.

Friend A asks bouncer 2 to turn around and look at all of the people wearing trainers in the smoking area. Bouncer 2 refuses to turn her head and look, and again we are told to piss off. I should point out that until now none of us has so much as raised our voices, or said anything offensive. Friend A then takes 2 steps so that he is directly next to bouncer 2 and again points at the people in the smoking area and tells her to turn around. Bouncer 2 says "If you take one more step I will phone the police!" We are all infuriated at this as we have done nothing wrong, certainly nothing to require police involvement. Friend A then starts shouting and accusing the bouncers of being racist, as the only difference between him and the other trainer-wearers is the colour of their skin. However, he was not aggressive or violent in any way, he isn't like that at all. Bouncer 2 walks off, speaks into radio and within 30 seconds, 8 police men walk over to us and lead us away from the club, ignoring everything we had to say. They left us on the street further up from the club.

We ended up going to a different club and continuing our night. The others weren't at all bothered or surprised by it by the next day. Sadly they have all experienced racism of some sort over the years, but this was my first experience of witnessing it first hand. I am still furious! Do you think I can do anything about it? Would the club take a complaint seriously? Friends think I should just leave it.

It could be racist, in the same way it could be because they were men, because of their age, because of the time of night, because the bouncer just didnt like the look, perhaps he thought they were gay and is a homophobe?

Bouncers, nice or not, do have to make snap descisions. Are these people going to cause trouble? Will they buy lots? Are they over 18? Are the attractive? (imagine a group of men about to head off when a large group of attractive females walks in) Its sexist, its judgemental, its probably wrong 50% of the time. But that is their job.

It is possible he made a prejudiced judgement. But the fact is he made a judgement and then didnt want to go back on it. He probably saw you two, realised you were a mixed group and regreted what he'd said but he couldnt lose face. Drunk people LOVE to argue especially when refused entry. Bouncers often dont go back on what they say because they dont want everyone else arguing the toss with them on the off chance they'll change their minds.

I have met bouncers that were dick heads on a power trip and went so far as to drag a guy round the back of the bar and beat him up. But I have also met very nice ones and I think they do a really tough job, not least in how dangerous it can be.

If it was racism that is awful for you and your friends. If it wasnt then calling the poor guy racist because he wouldnt let your mate in is equally awful.

I've always understood that clubs can refuse entry to anybody for any reason, as a female student whenever I tried to go clubbing I assumed I was turned away for not being pretty enough or not trendy enough or not flashing enough flesh.... this is why I don't do clubbing and haven't since I was about 21.

The bouncer could have not wanted to let two black men in, because they were black, or maybe because they were men (some clubs only let men in when they're with women, particularly if there are already more men than women inside).

But my understanding is that having your night ruined by being judged on a club door is pretty much par for the course if you go clubbing

Whilst going out with friends (male and female) we decided that the best way not to waste the night was to arrive as a group and ask the bouncers (before we even joined the line) would we get let in, more often than not we were told a flat no.

If the bouncer got shirty with us we would find somewhere else.

It was alot better than lining up for 30 - 60 mins and being told no at the door.

I have also been refused entry for
not wearing shoes (wearing trainers)
wrong type of coat ???
gender (male)
group size (all male)
group size (male and female)
hair cut (shaved)
looking unclean (stubble)

not to mention being drunk (I agree with that)
and being to noisy in the line

But I have found that as long as you treat bouncers ok they are ok with you :)

I hate doorstaff most of them are power crazy and idiots.
My ds has been roughed up by them for no reason,my other one was attacked by another guy and the bouncers chucked them all out on the street where a massive fight ensued leading to ds having his jaw broken and arrested for affray (later let off as ctv showed him innocent)
The other week we were accused of letting some other girls in behind us without paying,we didnt know them and we are all women inour 40's.

The worst thing is that a guy in our town was assaulted by doorstaff years ago and has spent the remainder of his life with severe brain damage,cannot do anything for himself.The doormen are all out now,sentences served

I would defo complain re racism,how dare they,even a complaint not upheld is worth doing for the record.

Like any job you get good and bad.

If this was anywhere in greater London, chances are they have a no trainers/jeans after 10pm, or whatever, policy. I go to a few bars/clubs who do this, we've been in there in jeans because we arrived earlier, or were on the guest list. It's par for the course - the reality is if a bouncer says you're not coming in , you have to accept it. There is no point in arguing. They don't have to let you in. There is no real comeback. however unfairly you think you've been treated.

I was physically manhandled by a bouncer in a pub by a famous racecourse last year (long story but a friend had used the toilet when told not to, we were then asked to leave. I asked to speak to the manager but while waiting this guy literally lifted me up and put me outside) In tears afterwards, I tried to complain to a passing police officer, and was basically told to get over myself . I will never go back to that town again.

In my town the bouncers start more fights than they prevent. One was recently convicted of beating a young boy to death. Thuggish idiots.

Name and shame!

and as if women never fight in clubs

Yeah they do of course, but fighting women are easier to control than fighting men on the whole.

As abhorent as the idea of women as 'man bait' in clubs is, it is true as someone else said thats why you get things like 'ladies free before 12am' type offers, they want women to come because men go to clubs to pull and if a place has 'wall to wall pussy' as ive heard it described then men wil go in, they are the ones who spend loads getting pissed [women more likely to get pissed at home before they go out] so thats why clubs/promoters do it.

A club full of men will empty quicker as the men will go elsewhere if there are no women, so it does make sense to turn away men in favour of women.

Where I live the bouncers have a reputation for being violent. They recently killed someone and were in court for manslaughter....can't rememebr what the outcome was. But apparantly people were begging the bouncers to get off a bloke that they were basicly strangling. By the time the police came he was dead. He was giving them some lip but not being violent.

I also know someone who was asked to leave a pub for being drunk. I've seen the cctv where he's then standing outside the pub, talking (maybe gobbing off I don't know). But he's stood with his hands in his pockets so not being aggressive, etc. One of the bouncers comes up to him and punches him in the face and lays him out cold.

I'm sure there are some nice ones but the job does seem to attract the wrong sort.

I dont think anyone is saying it couldnt 'possibly' be racist. We understand it COULD be racist as the men are black and there were men inside who were white. In the same way it COULD be the time of night, gender and so on.

Its just that, based on the the fact there is no actual evidence for racism that perhaps the OP is jumping to conclusion.

Yes, I'm white so perhaps naive due to lack of direct experience, but I'd rather assume everyone isnt racist than assume everyone is.

AmberLeaf

"but fighting women are easier to control than fighting men on the whole."

LOL

I thought "ladies' nights" were now illegal?

Do you have an English equivalent of the (northern irish) equality commission? They recently won a case over here where a man was refused service in a pub because he was black.

For people defending door staff, you surely can't be that ignorant to think all door staff are nice and just doing their job?

I went out with a door man and through him met ALOT of door staff in diff clubs and trust me 90% of the ones I met were awful, truly awful, I'm talking beating people up that get thrown out clubs, date rape drugs and all sorts.

The amount of people that think most of them are "nice home makers" is worrying cause it's those naive women that the nasty kind of door staff prey on.

wise up a bit.