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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To still be angry about this, and to want to do something about it?

64 replies

muminthecity · 13/04/2012 18:10

This is much longer than I intended, sorry!

Last week I went out with 3 friends, one woman, 2 men; they are all black, I am white (this is relevant.) We had dinner together at friend's house, then went to a bar we often visit. We had a great time, had quite a bit to drink but none of us were particularly drunk. We had a good dance, then when the bar was closing we decided to continue our night at a club just up the road from where we were. When we arrived the club was busy but not heaving, and a we saw people coming and going as we approached. When we got to the door, my 2 male friends were slightly ahead of me and my other friend, so it was not obvious that the four of us were together. The bouncer stopped my friends from going in, as we caught up with them we heard the bouncer tell them that they couldn't go in as they were wearing trainers. Fair enough, we all said, and were about to leave when friend A looked over at the smoking area (an enclosure at the front of the club, just behind the bouncer) and noticed that there were loads of men wearing trainers, these men were all white.

At the same time, other people were entering the club behind us, so it was not as if it were full to capacity, or near closing. Friend A questioned why there were several men already in the club wearing trainers. The bouncer stuttered and stammered and said something about management having the right to refuse entry. Friend B (also black male) asked the bouncer to reiterate the reasons we weren't allowed to enter. Was it because they were wearing trainers or because the management had told him not to let us in? The bouncer just apologised and said he could not let us in. Another bouncer (female, but not sure that's relevant) came over and asked the first bouncer if there was any trouble. Bouncer 1 says no, no trouble. Bouncer 2 then tells us we're not getting in so may as well piss off. Friend A again asks for a reason and is told that it is because he is wearing trainers. He then tells bouncer 2 about all of the other people we can clearly see wearing trainers. She says no, noone is allowed in in trainers. We are all pissed off now, as we can clearly see all other people in trainers.

Friend A asks bouncer 2 to turn around and look at all of the people wearing trainers in the smoking area. Bouncer 2 refuses to turn her head and look, and again we are told to piss off. I should point out that until now none of us has so much as raised our voices, or said anything offensive. Friend A then takes 2 steps so that he is directly next to bouncer 2 and again points at the people in the smoking area and tells her to turn around. Bouncer 2 says "If you take one more step I will phone the police!" We are all infuriated at this as we have done nothing wrong, certainly nothing to require police involvement. Friend A then starts shouting and accusing the bouncers of being racist, as the only difference between him and the other trainer-wearers is the colour of their skin. However, he was not aggressive or violent in any way, he isn't like that at all. Bouncer 2 walks off, speaks into radio and within 30 seconds, 8 police men walk over to us and lead us away from the club, ignoring everything we had to say. They left us on the street further up from the club.

We ended up going to a different club and continuing our night. The others weren't at all bothered or surprised by it by the next day. Sadly they have all experienced racism of some sort over the years, but this was my first experience of witnessing it first hand. I am still furious! Do you think I can do anything about it? Would the club take a complaint seriously? Friends think I should just leave it.

OP posts:
FoxyRoxy · 14/04/2012 12:35

Club management usually have a sign somwhere near the door stating that they reserve the right to refuse entry. Doesn't matter what the reason is, a nightclub is not legally obliged to let in anyone it doesn't want to. I used to work as a "door picker" at a London nightclub and if the doormen didn't like the look of someone they weren't coming in. Some people with trainers were allowed, some weren't. (case in point being VIP as someone pointed out earlier. Also, celebs could wear whatever they wanted dress code or not.)

I would not have immediately jumped to the conclusion that the doormen/women were being racist.

fedupofnamechanging · 14/04/2012 12:38

Horrible experience, but bouncers do refuse entry for all sorts of wanky reasons. Possibly they just didn't like the look of your friends, but they are unlikely to say that. I think you could only be sure it was racist, if everyone in the club was white.

I would be refused entry to clubs now, because I am overweight and in my late 30's. It's horrible and hurtful, but I'm not sure anything can be done about it - the owners do have a right to decide entry.

Cherriesarelovely · 14/04/2012 12:40

Apologies Amberleaf. We will just have to agree to disagree then. We will never know what the bouncers motivation was. I know that clubs have a right to refuse entry and yes, there could have been many reasons for their decision in this case race being one of them.

IAmBooyhoo · 14/04/2012 12:43

if it was to do with not wanting any more men in then that is sexist. i would be reporting them and complaining to the club owners. i would want a written explanation and if they said you were drunk and abusive i'd want them to prove via cctv that this was the case.

Ellovera · 14/04/2012 13:11

Sexist may be but it is better to have a balance of males to females in a club or it gets too rowdy . I reckon that's all it was . Or at the worst just didn't fancy letting them in for no particular reason .

And am in no way naive .

IAmBooyhoo · 14/04/2012 13:37

that's a shit reason. if people are rowdy remove them. you have staff and can call police if your staff cant manage, but dont exclude someone because of their gender. lots of men go to clubs and never get rowdy, ever. it's sexist and shouldn't happpen. would it be ok to refuse entry to disabled people or gay people?

LydiaWickham · 14/04/2012 13:42

Write to your local paper.

AmberLeaf · 14/04/2012 13:47

if people are rowdy remove them. you have staff and can call police if your staff cant manage

Thats a bit of a simplistic view TBH.

TidyDancer · 14/04/2012 13:54

I don't think this was necessarily racist. It could've been, but there's no evidence to back this up definitively. If you complain, you need to do it in a more general sense.

Bouncers are not all cunts, hashtag. That's a terribly unfair generalisation.

AceOfBase · 14/04/2012 14:07

Exactly tidy! My dh used to be a bouncer and is certainly not a cunt. Anyway if you had to deal with drunks all night you might be a little grumpy too. My dh has been assaulted and aeven STABBED while working on the door (which is why he gave it up). There are plenty wanky people out there and the bouncers are only doing their job trying to keep you out. muminthecity if you think it was racist you should absolutely report them but do it to the SIA (security industry authority) as they are the ones who bouncers report to and they can take their licences for that kind of behaviour. However with no proof and the fact the bouncer didn't actually make any racist remarks you probably won't get far.

hairylemon · 14/04/2012 14:14

I dont think it was racist either, unless there were no other black people in the club.

IME some bouncers enjoy being the 'god' of the club and take it a bit far but there are some really good ones that just want to make sure people have a good time with no trouble.

IAmBooyhoo · 14/04/2012 14:15

why amberleaf?

whatsapussycatdoll · 14/04/2012 14:22

As an ex Bouncer, I will say many people have different opinions on how drunk they are when they arrive at a club ( not saying you were) Just an option.

There are many reasons why your friends weren't allowed in, Thou the first bouncer who said "no trainers" when there was people wearing trainers all ready in, was an idiot! You have to be really careful if you want to refuse entry to people and sometimes you get it wrong. Possibly they Bouncer just didn't like the look of your friends, Bad i know but true, sometimes you just get a weird vibe from people, you have had a bad night and if you think they might be trouble later on. you refuse them entry.

I wouldn't jump to the racist thing right away thou. But you can report them to the SIA if you really think they were. But remember they could loose their job and can't work in the industry anymore if they loose their licence.

Thou never film or take photographs of them! they are people too just doing their job, which is dangerous and hard. I had 2 very very drunk people filming me one time and to be honest when the phone was thrust in my face at speed, i grabbed it and smashed it off the ground.

You may find these Bouncers just didnt want to let you in, they don't have to let people in if they don't want to, Just don't go back to the club.

AmberLeaf · 14/04/2012 14:29

IAmBooyhoo because chucking people out after they have assaulted someone, possibly injuring more [and bouncers removing them] on the way out is not the desired option.

Prevention is better than cure and people who do that job day in day out get a feel for trouble.

IAmBooyhoo · 14/04/2012 14:36

getting a feel for trouble is one thing. excluding based on gender is completely different. it is the same as excluding say Irish people because you believe the drunk stereotype. it isn't acceptable to exclude based on gender. base it on whatever vibes you are getting from the person but to exclude purely because there are enough men already in is sexist discrimination.

IAmBooyhoo · 14/04/2012 14:37

and as if women never fight in clubs.

igggi · 14/04/2012 14:44

They gave you a reason which you could see was untrue. If they'd said you weren't getting in because of something like a basd attitude/being drunk, you could never prove they weren't applying that to everyone, but in this case you know their rule wasn't applied fairly. Bouncers are not allowed to refuse entry on the basis of belonging to a protected group eg race, gender, disability.
I think a lot of posters are very reluctant to accept there was any racism at play here, I don't know why.

TidyDancer · 14/04/2012 14:53

Ace, my cousin was a bouncer. He looked really intimidating stature-wise, but he is really the nicest man you could meet. I won't have him called a cunt, which is the disgusting way hashtag described him. When you generalise like he/she did, you make it personal to all of them.

My cousin gave it up in the end too. He was sick of wankers treating him like crap.

lottiegb · 14/04/2012 15:12

Surely it was because they were men? Lots of clubs want to let in women in preference, as 'bait' for male customers and reassurance for women, while a (non-gay) club full of men does not attract male or female customers.

I've been refused entry to a club, quite early in the evening (we just wanted to pop in for a drink) for wearing 'trainer-style' shoes and a hooded top - translation; for wearing too many, too modest clothes, no use as man-bait.

The clothing rules are mostly just there as cover to allow bouncers the freedom to refuse whoever they like. Don't get fixated on the rules as stated, they are not the point.

Bambino81 · 14/04/2012 15:14

I don't know why you're jumping to the racist thing at all tbh? 90% Of bouncers are arseholes, they probably refused them entry cause they had a hair out of place/didn't like their face/they wasn't wearing a skirt up to the nooni etc. They refuse people for NO reason other then that they are dickheads and feel like being difficult.

I'm mixed race and never been refused entry to a club.

What area was the club? Is it notoriously racist? is it a mainly white area?

You have no proof it was because they were being racist. I'm not really sure how you've come to that conclusion Hmm

IAmBooyhoo · 14/04/2012 15:17

"Lots of clubs want to let in women in preference, as 'bait' for male customers "

as disgusting as that idea is, it doesn't make sense. what is the point of refusing entry to men so that women can come in to entice the men? surely just let the men in in the first place and you wont need to charge women for the pleasure of you using their sexuality as free advertising for your business.

lottiegb · 14/04/2012 15:25

It does make sense if you think about it. It's also why lots of clubs have 'ladies nights' when they let women in free but charge men.

Again, if a (non-gay) club is populated by men it won't attract male or female customers.

IAmBooyhoo · 14/04/2012 15:28

yes ladies nights disgust me too for the same reason.

Bambino81 · 14/04/2012 15:31

I don't know why you're jumping to the racist thing at all tbh? 90% Of bouncers are arseholes, they probably refused them entry cause they had a hair out of place/didn't like their face/they wasn't wearing a skirt up to the nooni etc. They refuse people for NO reason other then that they are dickheads and feel like being difficult.

I'm mixed race and never been refused entry to a club.

What area was the club? Is it notoriously racist? is it a mainly white area?

You have no proof it was because they were being racist. I'm not really sure how you've come to that conclusion Hmm

lisaro · 14/04/2012 15:54

I worked in a bar and nightclub through college. The bouncers were (with the very odd exception) normal family blokes or nice single blokes who didn't want trouble and went out of their way to make people safe in ways most people wouldn't. Anyone who has a negative opinion of all bouncers are, obviously, the ones who are the problem.