The grand national is cruel to horses

[McHappyPants2012]

Alot of the horses will be injured and whipped into going faster, it's also a long race course.

I can't believe people would bet on this event

still not changed my mind, but thats for the poster who have linked about safer practises

So far as I can see a lot of horses die miserable deaths. Can't see that dropping dead of a heart attack during a race is the worst way to go. Better than being shoved into a lorry and sent on a long journey to an abattoir.

But then I also think that dying as a result of a hound snapping your spinal column is quicker and cleaner if you're a fox than dying a long death from hunger if you reach old age without your teeth and starve because you can't kill food.

Wisest words on the whole thread there, Abra.

I owned a horse for ten years (before moving to London ), rode other people's for 5 or 6 years before that, and used to know a guy who was the vet at a racing stud.

And I think the National is a disgrace.

The field is too crowded, some of the fences are too risky because of their drops on the far side, and some are too high fr such a long race (imo).

I have been around horses all of my life, and in my teens spent two years working on a race yard at weekends. I never bet on racing, and wouldn't support the sport by going to a meeting.
People say that racehorses have the best of care and live like kings. The truth is that they are broken in and racing before their bodies are properly developed and the growth plates between their bones have fused. They are hot-housed by feed and training to try to help their bodies deal with this, and obviously in the years of breeding there is an element of the survival of the fittest. However, the wastage rate is massive, even before they see a racecourse. In addition to the physical strain on them, racehorses have a high incidence of stress-related conditions. Many develop stomach ulcers and others have "vices" such as weaving, box walking, cribbing, windsucking (Google if you don't know what these are) and sometimes just symptoms of mentally shutting down. That last is often not recognised by people who consider themselves to be horse experts... For vices you could substitute the phrase stereotypical behaviours and look at the work done with zoo animals because in their case we think it unacceptable to put an animal in a situation that causes them to exhibit these symptoms.
Owners, trainers and others who work with the horses are often said to love them. Maybe some do, but as we know with other animals (for example over-fed dogs) people can feel that they love an animal very much and still not treat it well.
Racehorse rehab charities work tirelessly to get those who don't make the grade, and retired racehorses (often still very young) into long-term homes. Unfortunately many aren't that lucky.
The Queen Mother is often quoted as a lover of the sport and her horses. Sadly, there are several documented cases of her cast-offs, even noted winners, being found in neglected conditions after she cared so much about them that, instead of keeping them in retirement, she allowed them to be sold down the line to an uncertain fate. Some years ago there was a QED programme called They Shoot Horses Don't They? and I wish they would run it again, because it told the bleak truth about the racing industry. In that programme they found one of the Queen Mother's ex racehorses in France, broken down and racing probably his last race - a "meat race" - where the fate of those unplaced was inevitable.

I'll get off my soapbox now and wait to be told that I don't know what I'm talking about. But I do.

And I'm baffled by the people who are defending the GN by pointing out that horses suffer in other ways (bored schoolmasters giving rides, off to France to be pate, etc). These things are true. But not justification for racing. That's not a reasoned argument, really, is it?

p.s. Don't concentrate on the deaths, learn about the wider picture, which I think is far more shocking.

Well said, schoolgov.

See - I didn't hide this thread.

Thank you Schoolgov My sentiments exactly.

Animals and money do not mix well.

schoolgovernor, do you mind me asking how long ago you worked in a racing yard, and whether it was a large yard or not?

I agree. 'well other people do things that are just as bad' isn't a good enough excuse. unless you are 6yo
Animal welfare in just about every sphere, and just about every species, needs a TOTAL overhaul.

CaveMum - I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, but yes, it was a large racing yard and yes it was some years back. However, professionally I sometimes still have to deal with racehorses.

I grew up in Liverpool and have been to the GN several times. It is a fantastic day out and I would hate to see it go. If we ban everything with any risk to any living creature we will live in a very dull world indeed.

I don't know if it's true or not but I have been told that there have been more deaths since protesters forced modifications to the course. I think what I heard was the jumps were made smaller as it was thought to be safer but the effect has been to speed up the race and increase casulaties.

It's very, very cruel and should be banned.
I can't watch it.

Tranquilidade - it's not about banning everything with any risk to a living creature really, there is much more to the racing industry than what is seen in the few brief minutes on the telly that people are talking about here. The "whipping" isn't actually as bad as it seems, because of the design of the flexible whips. The physical challenge for the horses isn't that bad either, because they are bred, nurtured and trained for it, and as said earlier, there are moves to make the National safer. I think to understand why so many horse lovers hate the National and the racing industry you need to find out more about these horses' lives. If you read my earlier post you will get an idea.

Totally agree!!! Work in a bookies and am puzzled as to the enthusiasm and excitement the race brings when it's sooooo very dangerous and horses die :(

I was just wondering if it was a small yard quite some time ago, no offence intended.

No one is trying to pretend that racing is perfect, and of course there are crooks in every walk of life, but there are also an awful lot of people on this thread that have formed their opinions based on the ramblings of an extremist organisation, rather than investigating things for themselves.

Sorry CaveMum, not offence taken.

I work with horses in a fairly high-profile role, so am a bit careful about giving info that might identify me. Let's just say I still have contact with several racing yards, but to be honest I'm questioning continuing with that because, although I'm there to help the horses, I disagree so strongly with the industry. I have plenty of other work should I decide to walk away.

"It is simple - sport involving animals exists to provide people with a good time, the enjoyment of participating animals is a matter of subjective opinion but I suspect those that die are not having much fun."

And that says it all. I could argue all night and back my argument up with cold, hard facts, but I could never put it better than this poster did. Any further discussion is just academic.

I can't understand how some people in this thread, in a silly attempt to throw the topic off course, could possibly justify saying what boils down to "lots of cruel things happen to horses so why care about the Grand National?" when it can only be a good thing for any form of cruelty to be stopped (even if other cruelties continue in the meantime that's no excuse not to end one) or why people are called "wise" when they spout self-serving rubbish in defence of horrendous wickidness to animals, eg fox hunting.
I've watched the video of Dark Ivy's death and, quite frankly, anyone who could continue to support this kind of senseless exploitation of animals for fun and profit and because they enjoy it is inhuman; the death of another horse today, although mentioned upthread, has been glossed over. Horses are just like us - they generally want an easy life so to argue that they enjoy racing is basically rubbish. They run because they are forced to by various means that strip away their advantage in size over humans. It seems to me that in so many areas of the horse industry (industry being a revealing word) the horses are given no more respect or consideration than a bicycle.
OP, you are absolutely NBU.

I don't know much about racing but you can't tell me that horses don't love running and jumping. I owned horses for many years and took part in team cross country events. The horses would get so excited as soon as they saw the horsehox - they knew they were off somewhere. They loved being with other horses and would anticipate the jumps - point one of my horses at a jump and you could tell from its whole body language it was having a great time - you could barely stop it from going for the jump even if you wanted to.

Dark Ivy's death was tragic and sickening, but fortunately led to changes being made to the course that made the National safer for the horses.

Reading Cavemums post about the changes to the course, I'm actually pretty disgusted. Two inches off of a five foot fence is absolutely nothing. Four inches is nothing! It just smacks of the 'powers that be' doing something to placate their opponents. It will change exactly nothing, but they will be able to say, 'we have taken notice of you, and made changes', whilst actually affecting nothing!

I know they made a big change to the landing side of Becher's Brook after Dark Ivy's death. It's not so much the size of the fences that's the problem as steep drops on the landing side and of course the size of the fireld, which makes bunching and loose horses more of a problem. Poor Dark Ivy jumped so bravely but the two horses alongside him were so close that he had nowhere to go - his front legs were held off the ground so he landed on his neck.

oops - the size of the field ie the number of horses

Saggy you have to remember that the fences are covered in loose brush that the horse can, and do, easily jump through - that is why you see so many loose branches strewn across the track after the horse have jumped.

It is also worth remembering that Dark Ivy died in 1987 and the changes made to the race since then are massive. The field size has been restricted to 40 horses (the track is more than wide enough to accommodate 40 horses jumping alongside each other) and Beechers itself has been heavily modified- the drop on the landing side was originally 3ft, it will be 10 inches this year; the Brook used to be 30 inches deep, it is now 1 inch deep. The sloping ground leading up to the fence has also been levelled off.