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Original poster

The grand national is cruel to horses

999 replies

McHappyPants2012 · 12/04/2012 15:20

Alot of the horses will be injured and whipped into going faster, it's also a long race course.

I can't believe people would bet on this event

OP posts:
Ponyofdoom · 12/04/2012 21:53

'I don't care so much about the riders'.

Doesn't sound very people loving to me!
Agree; hunt sabs are not animal lovers from what I have seen.

Flightty · 12/04/2012 21:53

and 95% last year on its own, Cavemum.

I mean is that good enough, for you? Or do you agree it's unacceptable?

SaggyOldClothCatPuss · 12/04/2012 21:53

And unfortunately, Anti or not, you can't argue with the GN death figures. As a race, it is extreme. There arent many other races thT result in that many fatalities! Let's hope that the changes made will show a marked improvement in those figures.

Flightty · 12/04/2012 21:55

Pony, if I need to spell it out, it means that I care more about the fact horses are put through this torturous activity and many of them die, than about a person who has chosen in full control and knowledge of the risks to take part in what is universally acknowledged as a gruelling and highly dangerous race.

Is that a bit clearer, or do you want me to say something about hunt sabotage as well, because I'm afraid I know fuck all about that.

Ponyofdoom · 12/04/2012 21:57

Personally I think its morally wrong to care more about animals than people. Just my opinion though..
No, I wouldnt start on another subject you are not informed about thanks :-)

PurpleRomanesco · 12/04/2012 21:57

Sorry if I'm coming across that way. I'm being rude but these threads bring out the worst in me.

People tend to come on these or start these threads once or twice a year spouting nonsense and lies. I love horses and it's the people who are ill informed and uneducated about them that cause the most harm.

Horses are dying and being neglected all over the UK. It grates me when people only focus on the welfare of them once year.

Yes the races are dangerous but they are constantly improving unlike the RSPCA who couldn't give a shiny shite about horses being neglected until the poor animal is moments from death. That happens every day.

PurpleRomanesco · 12/04/2012 21:58

Sorry! Was running about and missed a good few posts there.

CaveMum · 12/04/2012 21:58

Quoting the stats from one year in isolation will always be misleading. You get a better idea of the facts when you look at a broad spread of data, as I have given you.

Of course the death of any horse is upsetting, and I would much rather that no horses died whilst racing, but that will never happen. Instead we do the very best we can to minimise the risk to all participants.

Flightty · 12/04/2012 21:58

Ok...so you'd care more about some bastard farmer in Chile cutting a horse's nostrils and then somehow getting injured by the horse, than about the horse he'd deliberately mutilated?

That's not very people-loving.

Flightty · 12/04/2012 21:59

That was to Pony.

Rhinosaurus · 12/04/2012 22:00

I think pony is following a common tactic on these boards - defending her views by making personal slights against those who have a different opinion to her, and gasp, shock, horror dare challenge her.

I am just trying to get this, as someone who rides and has no problems with using animals for entertainment (does that include dog fighting/dancing bears/bullfighting etc?) her views on the GN are so much more valid than us non horsey people. Also, anyone who doesn't ride is somebody who thinks horses belong in farm parks for "horsie" rides and die of boredom...

Lol I don't think it's Flightty spouting the rubbish....

Flightty · 12/04/2012 22:01

Apology accepted, Purple. Thankyou.

I agree it's frustrating that people only look at this once a year. Of COURSE horses and other creatures are being hurt all the time.

It's just the way this event is marketed as 'family fun' that really sickens me. And people making bets on it as though it were harmless. It's not harmless. That's all I'm/we're trying to say.

Does anyone know what HAS been changed since last year? I just remember a load of pro GN people on the telly saying that you can't change it or it wouldn't be the national.

Flightty · 12/04/2012 22:04

Thanks Rhino, and Saggy for earlier.

I just don't think Ponyofdoom has thought it through. You can't defend something that's clearly not defensible.

Rhinosaurus · 12/04/2012 22:06

I have nothing against racing per se, but i do think the GN is too chaotic and has too many horses running, toward the end when the horses are becoming exhausted they are more likely to fall and cause other horses to fall.

It is all very well to get emotive if you love horses, admire thoroughbreds, enjoy the sport, but why can't it be made safer?

No amount of bitchiness, sniping and patronising can argue in the face of the hard evidence that this race is dangerous.

Flightty · 12/04/2012 22:07

Cavemum I don't think it's misleading as such. It's accurate if you're looking at last year's stats.

Your figures are accurate over 30 years or whatever it was.

They are different things. Neitehr is misleading. Both involve unacceptable harm to horses which should deserve better than a miserable death in a stampede.

I hope we can all agree on that.

CaveMum · 12/04/2012 22:07

Flightty, off the top of my head the changes are as follows:

3 fences (including Beechers) which have had the highest number of fallers, have been dropped in height

Horses that take part must pass a pre-race vet inspection - previously vets were on hand to look at the horses if they felt something was not right, but now they will be inspected thoroughly as a matter of standard

Horses must have completed in a set number of races over at least 3 miles, to prove they have the stamina to take part

Riders must have won at least 10 races over fences

I'll see if I can find a full list of the changes.

MyLittleMiracle · 12/04/2012 22:09

cave mum do them figures include those who are put to sleep cos of injuries they got in the race, or just those who literally dropped down dead. Sorry if those words sounded cold. I hope I upset no one.

Flightty · 12/04/2012 22:09

Thankyou very much Cavemum, that is an encouraging start.

I hope it makes all the difference, and that we see no deaths at all this year - not sure but didn't someone say there have already been deaths recently? I'm not following it, I hadn't realised it was on till I saw the thread.

PurpleRomanesco · 12/04/2012 22:12

Another change is that the horses won't have to do the whole parade ring photographs etc, So that they can wind down and chill out naturals as they would when they are racing at home.

CaveMum · 12/04/2012 22:12

Here are the physical changes that have been made:

The modifications to the Grand National Course announced today are:

  1. The landing side of Becher?s Brook (fence six on the first circuit and fence twenty-two on the second circuit) will be re-profiled to reduce the current drop (i.e. the difference in height between the level of the ground on takeoff and landing) by between 10cm (4 inches) and 12.5cm (5 inches) across the width of the fence. This will provide a more level landing area for horses. After the work is complete the drop will be approximately 25cm (10 inches) on the inside of the course and 15cm (6 inches) on the outside of the course. This difference in drop from the inside to the outside of the fence is being retained to encourage riders to spread out across the width of the fence and also to retain the unique characteristics of Becher?s Brook. The height of the fence will remain unaltered at 4 feet 10 inches (1.47 metres).
  1. Levelling work will also be undertaken on the landing side of the First fence (fence 17 on the second circuit) to reduce the current drop and provide a more level landing. By doing so, this amendment aims to avoid catching out horses that may ?over-jump? the (first) fence in the early stage of the race. The height of the fence will remain unaltered at 4 feet 6 inches (1.37 metres).
  1. The Fourth fence will be reduced in height by 2 inches to 4 foot 10 inches (1.47 metres). It was identified during the review that fence Four and fence Six (Becher?s) were statistically more difficult to jump than other fences in all races over the National fences and this is the reason for this change.
  1. The height of toe boards on all National fences will be increased to 14 inches (36cm). Toe boards are the orange board, positioned at the base of the fence and provide a clear ground line to assist horses in determining the base of the fence.

This is a link to the BHA's Grand National Review, which goes into more detail.

PurpleRomanesco · 12/04/2012 22:12

Naturally

ArielThePiraticalMermaid · 12/04/2012 22:13

Personally I think its morally wrong to care more about animals than people

I don't see what's wrong with that Confused. Most animals, horses included, as a damn sight nicer than people and have fewer people sticking up for them.

But it's interesting to see how "passionate" posters seem to get against horses when they don't care an awful lot of about wild animals and birds. Just my observations from the last few days.

Anyway, it's nice see someone who clearly knows what they're talking about staying calm and polite (@ Cavemum)

CaveMum · 12/04/2012 22:14

Flightty, yes sadly a horse died today at Aintree. He took a bad step whilst racing on the Flat between jumps and broke his leg. Sadly he could not be saved.

ArielThePiraticalMermaid · 12/04/2012 22:14

That should be against horse racing, sorry.

Mollieflanders · 12/04/2012 22:18

I love my horses far more than most humans, if I'm honest. My horses are genuine, decent, good and I trust them with my life and that of my children.

There are very, very few people I can say that about.

Like most horsey people, we tend to prefer them to humans, for very good reason Smile