The grand national is cruel to horses

[McHappyPants2012]

Alot of the horses will be injured and whipped into going faster, it's also a long race course.

I can't believe people would bet on this event

^^^^for the above message, i meant 'to', not 'two'! and while i WOULD like to whip the jockeys like they whip their horses, I would not like to leave them dead. I wrote that bit wrong!

Again, I wonder why people get so worked up about horses in particular? As opposed to say orcas in marine parks, dolphins in captive facilities, or sharks being caught and their fins sliced off, which is equally cruel and disgusting and is actually wiping out sharks. Interesting.

Ariel. It isn't just horses! Ever been over and lurked in the Doghouse topic? It's vicious over there!

I think people get so worked up about horses in a thread aboutthe Grand National because it is horses who run in the Grand National, not orcas, dolphins, sharks etc.

The dogs or the owners? :)

I get increasingly worked up about wild animals to be honest which are just trying to go about their business, and just get more and more fucked up by humans

Yes thank you Thumbwitch. I am aware of the topic. However, starting a thread about wild animal exploitation receives nowhere near the number of posts and nowhere near the amount of concern. Out of sight and out of mind.

Ariel that isn't the case at all. I, for one, am very much involved in animal rights, in all situations, and support lots of causes. This is just one particular debate though. Theres o point coming into this topic on your high horse (excuse the pun) and assuming that we don't care about other animals when that isn't true at all. If I had seen a debate about one of the other atrocious acts you mentioned, I'd be involved in that too.

Ariel I'd suggest that's because no one is seeking to defend it.

'If a horse is not coping during a race, injured or suffering from stamina, then they are pulled up. Much better for horses, jockeys and owners to pull up than to attempt to push them when they are not coping.'

Really? Then why the bucket throwing for Ballabriggs and several others last year, why the oxygen given ONLY after he had finished the race. Of course he wasn't pushed - he only won it and not to go into the subsequent ban for whip overuse.

Some people really do seem to believe a lot of nonsense.

That's good. Forgive me for feeling like this, Derpette - I had a run in with a couple of posters earler in the week when I posted a link to the unspeakable suffering and cruelty in Midway, where the albatross chicks are dying horrible deaths after eating our plastic litter. All I wanted was the acknowledgement that it was hideous, that it was a problem and did anyone have any ideas about how we could raise awareness - but some posters told me I was a hypocrite and why? Because my laptop was plastic . And someone else said basically she didn't give a shit about wildilfe because she had a job and three children and didn't have time. And someone else said I didn't know what I was on about. And someone else said (on a thread a while back) that anyone protesting about captive dolphin facilities was trying to spoil everyone's fun. Etc.

Sorry if I have seemed on my high horse.

Banning racing would kill far more horses as no one would breed them anymore.

Would you have liked them to give him oxygen during the race? That would have been difficult........

Ballabriggs was fine. He may will win again today.

'Banning racing would kill far more horses as no one would breed them anymore.'

I don't think that actually makes any sense at all. Or is it me?

Yes, catgirl, I would, when he showed signs of not coping and er, 'stamina'.

It wouldn't have been hard if the jockey had bothered to pull him up at that point instead of pushing him beyond his limit in order to get the sodding money.

He wasn't pushed beyond his limit.

He did not suffer any injuries or ill effects, he was perfectly fine. Yes he was tired and deydrated as would you be if you ran a marathon on a hot day.

Other than a tiny cut on one of his legs he had nothing wrong with him, he trotted up fine the next day and enjoyed lots of polos and affection from the people who love and care for him.

Nothing permanent, no. I'm not saying he did. I'm saying he needed urgent medical care after the race which to me indicates he was pushed beyond his limit.

I would say the same of a runner who completed a marathon in the same circumstances, though the runner is responsible for their own welfare.

If he hadn't been given medical attention he could have died or suffered long term ill effects. That's why it was given. It was necessary.

I'm assuming that none of the people complaining about the GN and the related cruelty to animals on this thread eat meat then?

He did not need "urgent medical care".

He was given water along with all the other finishers at is was a balzing hot day and they were dehydrated. That's not "urgent medical care"

He was given oxygen as a precaution and because he is a valuable, loved animal being given the best care possible. It wasn't "medical" it wasn't "urgent". It wasn't "necessary" It was a precaution.

He would not have died or suffered long term ill effects without the oxygen

He would have eventually died with water though - I'll give you that. Pretty much everything will die if it doesn't get water. It's not "urgent medical care" though. It's hydration

I do eat meat, I just think all round treatment of all animals could be better.

"Ballabriggs is totally dehydrated," said his groom, who was close to tears at the stable's success. "We've had to give him so much water, he was completely spent."

Not necessary? Not urgent? Okay.

Erm - did I say the water wasn't necessary or urgent? Noooo

Of course he needed water. Of course he was dehydrated - he just ran a race in the sun. What would you expect?

It wasn't "urgent medical care". It was water - they all needed it. You would need it if you ran a race on a hot day. It still wouldn't be "urgent medical care".

Sustainably, ethically and responsibly sourced meat is very different IMO. There is nothing which is inherently cruel about it if the slaughter is quick and effective. Battery pigs and chickens are another thing altogether. It could be said the dairy industry was crueller than the meat industry as well. I don't think you have to be a vegan to object to using animals for sport.

I am riddled with contradictions, I know.

Yes you did.

Anyway I can't be arsed with this, it's not getting us anywhere. The press conveniently lost the interviews immediately after the race in which someone said he was in a 'very bad way' as far as I recall. It's now full of 'the public misconstrued that' etc etc which pretty much says it all.

Enjoy your day, I'm just hoping no horses get killed this afternoon.

Being dehydrated in a human is urgent, people are put on drips and given oral rehydration, so I would say it was urgent medical care, but only life threatening or emergency if left untreated.

I am hoping the same thing

I hope no horse or rider here hurts this afternoon, or at any other races. I reckon ballabriggs will win again, I was tempted to bet on him last year, but the welfare side stopped me. I saw him on the Tele at the pub, and his eyes just made ne feel he would win. I said it to s mate too and I was right. Haven't even looked though this year.