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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

The grand national is cruel to horses

999 replies

McHappyPants2012 · 12/04/2012 15:20

Alot of the horses will be injured and whipped into going faster, it's also a long race course.

I can't believe people would bet on this event

OP posts:
montysma1 · 14/04/2012 13:09

Saying that horses love racing is as stupid as people who think that their dogs are children. Horses do not know what racing is, it?s a human pass time. Horses are not humans, they have no concept of competitive sport, no concept of dangerous sport and no choice in the matter either. Comparing them to athletes is facile. Olympic athletes CHOOSE to compete. Olympic athletes UNDERSTAND the concept of competitive sport.
Horse owners who condone racing are either :
a/ well aware that it is cruel but have such a sense of entitlement that they think it is acceptable, because they enjoy it.
b/ willfully deluded
c/ very very thick.

It really has to be one of those, because I don?t rational people could not see what we see every year and think that its just dandy.

Last years winner, wasn?t exhausted and distressed, he was"overheated". In which case, why the hell wasnt he pulled up? Getting vets to him quickly is not the same has preventing the animal getting into that state in the first place. Whether or not it was medical attention he received or whether he had long term affects is irrelevant.

What would we expect Catgirl? We would expect that he should not have been allowed to get into that state in the first place.

The BBC is hugely to blaim for this too. Its shocking that so many people on this thread were genuinely not even aware of the cruelty of this race. References to "obstacles" and panning away from fallers sanitises it all nicely. Perhaps some close ups of animals with horrible injuries thrashing on the ground until they are shot would drive home the reality of this great British tradition. But that wont happen whilst its such a money earner for TV.

Ivanapoo, the horrors of intensive farming are countless and awful. But they are not the subject of the thread. The existence of one cruelty does not jusfify another.
In addition, there is something particularly revolting about a cruelty perpretated in the name of entertainment.

catgirl1976 · 14/04/2012 13:11

Horses DO have a concept of competitive sport. If you knew the first thing about them or had spent any time with competition horses you would know that.

They know when they have won. They love winning. They are surprisingly competitive. Thats just a fact - its not attributing human qualities to them

ivanapoo · 14/04/2012 13:14

Ariel you are right that some meat is produced more ethically and that dairy and egg farming can also be cruel; however I would bet money (haha) that at least some of the people on this thread talking about boycotting the GN have eaten a dodgy chicken, tuna or bacon sandwich or burger since the last GN.

MirandaGoshawk · 14/04/2012 13:16

There was a very good thread on MN last year after the Grand National when those two horses died. Some contributors were v. knowledgable having worked with racehorses and one of them had come to the conclusion that:
yes, soft ground is important,
be fussy about only having experienced horses & jockeys,
very high fences unreasonable,

but the most important issue in safety over jumps is to

LIMIT THE NUMBER OF RIDERS TAKING PART.

She reckoned that about 15 should be the maximum. This year there are 40 Shock

They are all in a scrum trying to be in the best position to jump the fence. There needs to be fewer of them. Simple.

Limiting the number of riders would mean that those who wish to 'enjoy' the race still could, could still bet throw their money away , (nearly) everyone's happy, and it doesn't cost anything to implement. Smile

ivanapoo · 14/04/2012 13:19

montysma I'm not trying to turn this into an animal cruelty thread but I find sanctimony on animal welfare from people who'll eat anything a bit bemusing, that's all. And if I wanted to be clever I could argue that eating meat is a form of entertainment as we do it purely for pleasure do we not (I.e. it is not a necessity).

I'm glad for this thread though as I hadn't really thought about the GN as a dangerous event before so I'll get back in my box.

catgirl1976 · 14/04/2012 13:20

Totally agree that the numbers should be limited. There are too many riders as I have said already on this thread. That is the issue with the GN and I would support it being dropped to 15 / 20

MilitaryWag · 14/04/2012 13:59

@catgirl1976

Ive heard it all now Hmm
Having spent many years working in the racing industry I can safely say you are talking out of your arse behind

catgirl1976 · 14/04/2012 14:04

my horses love winning.

SamuelWestsMistress · 14/04/2012 14:06

YABU.

Not cruel. Without it TB horses wouldn't even exist!

MilitaryWag · 14/04/2012 14:21

SamuelWestsMistress

A weak and un-intelligent justification

If you are tired then take a nap

Hmm

catgirl1976 · 14/04/2012 14:24

Can I ask what you did in the racing industry MW as (and of course I might be very wrong) I get the feeling you were not involved in riding or training horses as you don't seem to know a lot about them

That isn't intended to sound rude, you just come across as not having been involved at the "coal face" IYSWIM

catinboots · 14/04/2012 14:25

Bollocks bolllock and more bollocks.

The horses taking part today are probably the most pampered animals on earth, They are also highly tuned athletes who compete in an activity they enjoy.

Opposing the Grand National is like opposing F1, or MOTO GP, or Skydiving or boxing.

SamuelWestsMistress · 14/04/2012 14:26

A weak un-intelligent attack on my observation, MilitaryWag.

This is AIBU? I say it is UR that's really the ONLY answer I need to give. I only added a half-arsed opinion because I can't be bothered to go into the ins and outs of it all, I did that last year!

Flightty · 14/04/2012 14:33

I don't think I believe that a horse loves winning. I think a horse might enjoy the attention it is given for winning.

Derpette · 14/04/2012 14:35

Please tell me how you can claim that horses enjoy this. Please do expand on this comment.

And again, anyone who can compare horse racing (or any competitive animal sport) to anything done by a HUMAN CAPABLE OF THINKING FOR THEIRSELVES is a complete and utter fuckwit.

Excuse the language, it had to be said.

Marne · 14/04/2012 14:40

I'm enjoying reading this thread and the different views, i wonder how many of you know anything about horses and the racing world? how many of you have riden a race horse? how many of you have been to a race?

I know everyone has different view on this and thats good (makes a good debate).

I have riden ex-racers and they still thrive on racing (they will challange other horses to a race when out riding and are drawn to fences).

How many times have you watched a race and seen that 'even after the rider has fallen off or the horse has fallen and got back up does the horse then continue to race without a jokey?' a horse would not continue to race unless it wanted too (i know some do pull up but most will continue). How many times have you seen a horse refusing to line up for a race? if a horse does not want to race it will not race and will often chuck the rider off, the horse is then pulled out of the race.

Horse racing has been around for 100's of years, things are a lot safer than they were years ago, the fences are smaller, the horses are well looked after, if horses become lame then they are pulled out of the race. If horse racing was baned then 1000's of horses would be put to sleep as they would be useless for anything else other than grazzing.

I love horses, they are lovely creatures but these horses are bread to race, the same as cows are bread for milk and beef, the same as chickens are for eggs.

catinboots · 14/04/2012 14:50

If you've ever ridden horse you'd know they can't be forced into anything. Do you really think an 8 stone jockey would win a fight with half a tonne of pure muscle?

seeker · 14/04/2012 14:54

Horses are herd animals. They are also prey. And therefore motivated by their flight reflex. That's why they keep racing after they've lost their rider, not because they love it.

Mollified · 14/04/2012 14:54

I worked in jump racing for many years - breaking, schooling and training.

It is absolutely not true to say that a horse has no choice about becoming a racehorse. Most racehorses love to run, it is what they are bread to do and they live to race. Most racehorses are very competitive and will strive to win. It is in their nature. IME if a horse is not at his physical peak he will not be entered in a race.

I say most but not all. There are the exceptions who do not like it, they get broken in and schooled with the others but if a horse shows no enthusiasm for the sport there is no point in pushing it; it will never make a racehorse. These horses get sold on and, if they are lucky, live long and useful lives in other areas of the equine world.

Derpette · 14/04/2012 15:01

Catinboots - it isn't about physical power! If my dogs wanted to resist me they could easily chew me into little pieces, but instead theyre trained to do as I tell them to (although I add they get free reign most of the time)

Same for horses?

scarletforya · 14/04/2012 15:04

Bloody hell, ruby Walsh got off lucky then! Shock

Marne · 14/04/2012 15:08

Not the same for horses at all (a dog is not as strong as a man Hmm ), i have riden many horses that have refussed to do things (include jump) and however much you kick it, whip it and shout at it wont make any bloody difference. A horse is at least 4 times stronger than a man (race horses are pure muscle).

I have been on the back of a ex-racer who decided (on a gallop across a field) that he would race the other horses, there was no way i could stop him, he wanted to run and wanted to win. Horses love to race, its in their blood just like a greyhound wants to chase furry things.

Marne · 14/04/2012 15:09

Oh, and good luck to all of you betting on todays big race, i have picked 2 horses but don't hold out much luck, fingers crossed no horses are hurt today.

catgirl1976 · 14/04/2012 15:18

My bets are on. I will be praying they all get round safely.

theinets · 14/04/2012 15:20

Animals were put on this planet to serve man.