to think that most of us have worked behind a bar/ in a factory/supermarket/ as a cleaner at some point, HAVEN'T we?????

[bejeezus]

Came up in conversation today in the office, that I have worked as a barmaid; my colleagues where and I was equally that non of them have...I thought EVERYONE had worked behind a bar at some point in their life???

Ive had variousjobsinmylife, including factory work, working in kitchens, dog kennels, cleaning, callcentres; and now Im a professional

it gotme thinking--i went to uni and worked holidays/ evenings and weekends...now i think about it, hardly anyone else did that!

Am reading 'Chavs' at the minute and the author makes that very point....very large majorityof politicians have never done that kind of job and so cannot relate to the working classes AT ALL. It really hit home, how very far removed from normal folk, politicians are these days

But,most of yous have done/do these kind ofjobs-right?

As for politicians, people always forget that they see more of the rough side of life than most ordinary people do. Until you've attended the weekly MP's surgery on an estate and listened to people's terrible stories and tried to help them the best you can, you assume they just sit around in the Commons all day. Most weekends they are trudging around the local streets canvassing or doing constituency work. In fact one of my first jobs was working for an MP and it opened my eyes to how many people live. Most MPs are not MP for Henley

This doesnt give them any insight really

Doing bar work/waitressing/cleaning for 3 months during the university holidays gives you a very small insight. 40 years of minimum wage with no prospect of any improvement on your terms and conditions can be soul destroying

i agree

why not? It means they are far more aware of the real circumstances people live in than the average Daily Mail ranter. They might not have lived that life themselves but they can see it/try to help.

I don't think you get points but it does give you more of an understanding of what those jobs entail than if you hadn't done them - especially if you work with people who are doing them permanently and had done them long term
(i have done shop work, nursing home, factory, delivering leaflets, mcdonalds, admin)
Politicians see the rough side of life but only as an outsider - they are able to help as they have contacts etc so don't know what its like not to have that access. I much prefer the idea of politicians that have done a proper job first and know that life isn't just about politics

most of them have done a proper job first - not david cameron or any of the current front bench which is why I can't bear them but it's unusual to go straight into politics. You'd be too young, for one thing. Just looked it up - in 2005 40% of MPs came from the professions (teacher, lawyer, dr), 14% came from politics, the rest from other work (6% were manual workers which, unsurprisingly, is down from 11% in 1987).

Doing bar work/waitressing/cleaning for 3 months during the university holidays gives you a very small insight. 40 years of minimum wage with no prospect of any improvement on your terms and conditions can be soul destroying.

Agreed. But if politicians, when they were students, did at least some holiday work in more 'menial' roles, rather than in internships and skiing holidays, it would be better than nothing. As I understand the OP, some politicians have never done one of these roles, ever. That's pretty appalling.

I don't think you get points, and it's clearly not the same as that being your job for the rest of your life, but surely it's better to have done those kinds of jobs than not at all?

And it is totally patronising to say that those are shit jobs.

I really enjoyed working in a cash and carry, and did it two summers in a row. The other staff were all friendly, the customers were nice and I got to know them, mostly being regulars. It was nice having no responsibility and literally clocking on and off and forgetting about work as soon as I went out the door.

But I fully acknowledge I'd probably end up hating it pretty sharpish if I'd had to do it year-round.

Agreed. But if politicians, when they were students, did at least some holiday work in more 'menial' roles, rather than in internships and skiing holidays, it would be better than nothing. As I understand the OP, some politicians have never done one of these roles, ever. That's pretty appalling

Yes, exactly

I've never done one of those jobs, but don't think of myself as particularly posh! I worked in uni summer holidays and always got office jobs, the first summer was great as I picked up £250 a week for working in a marketing department (I think I would have really struggled to find future employment in my field without that 3 months experience) which felt like a fortune, I saved most of it for my second year at uni. The next two holidays I worked as secretary/receptionist/switchboard type jobs, which were mostly just dull. Before uni I concentrated on my exams and did do better than every single one of the majority of my friends who all worked in shops, waitressing etc. I babysat fairly regularly and just managed on less money. Less money for nights out also meant more time studying! And less money for clothes meant fewer fashion mistakes.
I think even after uni most people start at the bottom of their industry so you do have to do dull work for less money, but have the carrott of working your way up dangling in front of you to keep you going. These days I suspect people will be stuck in 'first jobs' for a lot longer, if lucky enough to get them in the first place. I think the point about doing those sorts of jobs for 40 years being soul destroying is a very valid one, however for some people doing manual work makes them really happy! I bet there is less clock watching for a start. Everyone should at least have some experience of being the worst paid person in their organisation, it should encourage people to treat eachother better.
On Cameron - I don't think 6 weeks working in a pub would be enough to give him 'insight' think of the song Common People 'if you called your dad he could stop it all'.

And it is totally patronising to say that those are shit jobs

but they ususally are shit jobs, and feel that way, if you are not only doing it on a temporary basis.

scroobiouspip, I don't think there's any evidence for that. It's a myth that most MPs have never done a proper job before becoming an MP - and the second most popular career pre MP (after "business" which could mean anything) is teacher (school or university). I would imagine those people would have done the same kind of menial work as the rest of us have done from time to time. Although true that only 6% came directly from a "manual labour" job into politics.

i worked 4 jobs once, in order to pay bills and buy food

that was shit

I don't find it soul destroying working retail, I like the buzz of it

@scroobius We were at the same uni. Most of the people I knew did the same sort of work as me (music) or office work (clerical/computers) in the holidays. Very few did bar work or waitressing. It's still working for a living at the bottom of the food chain. Why fetishise one type of part time/short term/casual employment over another? I've never operated a till. That is something to be neither proud or ashamed of. I've never ever not worked either, since two days after graduation.

OP I am 100% behind you- you are DNBU!
My first job was at McDonalds while I was doing my A-levels...then through university I worked in a supermarket, then at had a shop job most week ends and holidays.

Didn't do me any harm at all- I loved the feeling earning my own money and spend/save it as I pleased, rather than having to harrass my parents for it.

Looking back at university, I def seemed to be in the minority to be working part-time. I remember so many other students with their own cars, endless new clothes, luxury holidays all funded by the bank of mum & dad...

Not to begrudge them these things, but there is something about earning your own money that makes you realise how hard you need to work for things in life, and not just in the material sense. Some students I knew were graduates and almost 30, never having had a full-time job let alone a week end or job on the side...absolutely no idea how things are for the majority of people in life.

Yes, but I think there's a big difference between you thinking that your job is shit and someone telling you your job is shit.

We need people to do these jobs, it's not possible for everyone to do the non shit jobs whatever they are.

Agincourt IMO the difference is, if you can find an employer with good conditions and you are paid enough to afford more than lives necessities

It used to be common for working class men to support a family on a working class wage- most of those jobs no longer exist

so I think its harder for working class people doing working class jobs, to find the satisfaction you have. IME, to acheive that you are either a trades-person or you educate yourself into a more MC job

trixy but we should recognise that their working conditions are often shit

Yes, but that's the working conditions, not the job that are shit.

no one is saying they are not shit for doing the job. the wages and conditions are shit

Yes, I do take your point and I do work for a very good company who do progress their staff if they are capable and want that progression and we are given lots of incentives which I don't believe are normal practice and the culture is that everyone is a valuable member of that team, whatever they do and are capable of and I suppose that's why it works and promotes a better working experience.

not