to think that SS do not remove children without very very good reason?

[kickmewhenimdown]

Had a friend round and she mentioned that she had met someone (a distant relative of mine, i dont really speak to them) who had recently moved back locally and that person had more or less said that SS had unjustly removed her children, including a baby right after birth. Without giving too much information, it was not for sexual abuse but for neglect and according to dr because she is morbidly obese. Friend was then sympathetic with distant relative and how SS were overstepping mark. AIBU not agree with this, and not be particularly sympathetic for dr?

i think that having court hearings in secret is a recipe for disaster. Some of the posts on here and in the papers makes me think we are living in a natzi state 40+ years ago. Yes everyone makes mistakes, but i can't begin to imagine the pain and anger of a parent who incorrectly has their child taken. the decision should at least be open to public scrutiny and therefore is more likely to be correct

The thing is they are often dammed if they do and dammed if they don't....

exactly

every single parent who has had their kid taken away or been under investigation is never to blame according to them. its always someone elses fault.

my uncle is a SW mind you, he says they promote the crap ones out of harms way!

Grip- was that a CP SW, or from a different team?

OP- it sounds as though there have been ongoing problems that haven't been addressed and of course they won't have been, because like most parents, whose children are subject to a CPplan, there has been a denial and minimising of the issues raised by SS.

I wouldn't get into arguments about it, because unless details are known, it is pointless.

Name- i have never come across an SW or family support workr who had poor literacy or communication, in the last 5 years, at least.

SW's are responsible for their own paperwork and recording, which, to succeed in court, has to be water tight.

In th eother case quoted, if the police have used a PPO,there has been an immediate danger and these are used rarely, as are EPO's, these are scrutinised by the court and if any doubt is there, they are never granted or upheld.

It's like midwives, isn't it? Some are saints and some are dreadful and we really notice both, because we so need them to be good at such a vulnerable point in our lives.

I would never assume that social workers don't make mistakes. I don't believe for one second that children get taken into care only because their mother is obese - but of course, that can't tell OP whether or not this mother has been treated fairly or not.

I am an adoptive mother and I have dealt with social workers who were so thoughtful, patient, caring and sensible they made your heart sing. I've also dealt with some who were dangerously incompetent and completely out of their depth. I don't believe for one second that there is any kind of conspiracy to snatch children, or an institutionalised bias to removing children too soon - if anything, I think the institutionalised bias is to removing them too late. But there is a terrible problem with resources, recruitment and retention and therefore of the quality of social work. If you just look at what they are paid versus what is expected of them, it's no surprise. Their pay should be commensurate with lawyers and GPs, in my view.

Dreaming- the children have been through enough, without making everything pubic, schools are not always changed as foster care is sought within the same LA. I know many a person, as i am sure posters on here do, that would have a field day with knowing the behind the scenes story, of their child's classmate.

The thing is though Joanna, I am not under investigation, we are the victims, so there was no reason at all, ever, for the SW to write a report slating our family. I think she just forgot she was dealing with victims.

That report, in the middle of all that we were going through, made me literally suicidal.

I will never, ever forgive her for the additional trauma she caused our family and the dismay she caused.

Our faith in the CP system was massively shattered by her and that has been very damaging to us at a time when we most need help.

Nazi state? - oh fgs, dreamingofsun, you can't mean that! My family lived in a real nazi state, one where the state actually took people's children - millions of them - and murdered them in front of their eyes. You don't actually think you're living somewhere like that, do you? So why say it?

Devora- it's going to get worse, as so many of SW's roles are being given over to support teams, who are often unqualified to carry out the tasks that they are given.

birds, spelling, grammer, mis spelling of names and surnames, lack of capitals, the one report, although factually correct (almost), was incredibly badly written, I'm going to get it and count how many different ways they spelt our surname.

The other report was just a joke.

Having had dealings with one particularly badly neglected child that SS were doing everything to keep with its mother I take all "SS stole my baby" with a gigantic pinch of salt. I have no doubt that mistakes are made but IME these tend to be on the side of leaving children with crap parents for too long.

I also consider that criticising someone's parenting is pretty much the most personal thing you can do and that nobody thinks they are are a shit parent

devora- i imagine if you've had your children removed by force, despite the fact that you are a decent parent you would feel like that. particularly since you can't even speak about it in public. it sound barbaric.

birds - yes guess i forgot about children who should be removed. i think there needs to be more accountability somehow and more transparancy...not sure how

7 times, in various ways, also the childrens names have a variety of spellings and there are some clear factual errors as well, but they are not material to the report.

I personally had to explain various things to the social worker that she should have known and it was clear that she was not experienced in her field, although she was nice.

I think that it needs to be rembered that all Looked After etc Children can access their records and they can take legal advice, if they want to, as adults and take legalaction, if they feel that they need to.

It is more common now for relatives to have residency of children, rather than them placed outside off the family. So it is now rare for children to not know all of the circumstances surrounding their removal.

Whether these should be made public, as these children are victims and in lots of ways damaged, is debatable. They have the right to privacy, as do their siblings.

Name- what was the purpose of that report? and surely that would have been one of many?

It is often forgotten that the SW is the child's SW and their focus has to be on the child, not finding excuses as to why the child is suffering, even though, support is put in place for the family, also.

Every child is awarded a guardian, as a representative, this is aswell as the SW.

birds, have pmd you - only one report and case closed.

Should every divorce be open to public scrutiny?

Why only the private lives of children, would you like your neighbours knowing that you had been brought up in squalor, not toilet trained/fed etc?

It's all very 'i'm all right jack'.

Perhaps we could anonymise the direct work books that we do with LA children that ask them what they like about their life now and show their answers, such as,
Children will play with me because i don't smell.
I have clean clothes and don't feel ashamed anymore.
I have a clean bed.
In the case of girls "i have combed hair and look pretty".
I don't get frightened because everyone shouts.
I can play because there isn't rubbish everywhere.
(These are real and off the top of my head)

Birds - are you talking about open justice? It has to be a good thing to allow justice to be seen to be done. However, that doesn't mean private personal details have to be made public. The media manage to report rape cases without identifying victims - and since the family courts have been slightly more open, I don't think confidentiality has been breached.

I am not for one second saying that there isn't bad SW's and some cases are uncertain as to how it would pan out, if the children were left and every SW knows that LA Children underperform, so you do wonder at whether children who are border line should be removed, you have to convince yourself before you ever think about putting it to your manager, then legal and finally court.

There is so much that has happened in every case that isn't on paper, that public scrutiny wouldn't always be helpful, this is often admitted to after removal when the parenting assessments are taking place.

The hardest part to document is the emotional abuse and that would not come across from reports.

Edam- the difference is that the victim is making the claim and some details are given, how could the LA defend it's decision without any details?

A common one is failure to thrive and so that would be enough for spectulation on the part of the public.

The child cannot give consent for this to be made public, if the parents are having PR removed, who then has the right to decide?

I've known cases where SS have given children back to mothers who hit them with slippers - a cultural thing apparently, drug addicts who've had one more chance after another, children returned to appalling conditions.

It must be awful to loose your children, really the worse thing that could happen to a woman so who is going to admit it was their own fault.

My DD never brushes her bloody hair and still looks pretty, please tell me that isn't considered a factor ?

I have no idea how a SW would have qualified without basic literacy skills.
I Am currently on the degree programme and the academic levels expected
Of us are so so high.

wants tbh I was surprised that someone degree educated in any profession would have sent out a report with so many typos, but I thought I was being fussy, I confess, seeing our name spelt wrongly, over and over and over again, and in different variations, from almost the first sentence, although a minor point, did make me notice all the other errors more.

More concerning is whether the mispelling of names has been carried over into systems designed to monitor abusers.

Heswall, of course not if it is not part of a bigger picture of neglect. In the same way that not all motorist are criminals but most criminals are motorists, most children that look untidy are not neglected. I would guess that the vast majority of neglected children are messy and have things like lice, matted hair and filthy clothes.

I dealt on many occasions with a woman who was imprisoned for giving her pre-teen son class a drugs. Her house was a hovel (dog shit on the floor, knives all over the kitchen where he could get them, guinea pig living in a shoebox, festering mouldy food everywhere, bath water opaque with filth and that's just the things that come to memory 7 years after going in her house). SS kept him with her knowing these conditions and were reluctant to separate them despite this - so I think you're unlikely to be under the radar for failing to brush your DDs hair

I deal with social services for work a lot. In my experience the parents are given chance after chance to the extend the child doesn't get a chance at a decent life. Then the cycle starts again.

Foster care is expensive and way underrated. It should be paid more and seen as intense therapy as well as accommodation. This would break the cycle