To rant about passive smoking here because...

[DairyNips]

... I don't want to fall out with my pil?

My pil are lovely people and they adore their grandchildren (we have 2 ds's and one on the way). However, they smoke. Fil is open about it and mil hides it but we all know.

We have had words about the smoking several times since the dc came along. They generally leave the room to smoke but just dot make enough of an effort. Mainly its fil as mil tends to do it when we're not there. There's two issues really, the first is fil doesn't go far enough away to smoke so the smoke still drifts through. For eg he will go in to the kit hen which is out of the lounge and through the dining room. So two rooms away, no doors closed in between, no open windows. Sometimes he does it in the downstairs loo, just in the dining room (so the next room). Occasionally he goes out the back door, still no good as he stands near the door with it open and the smoke just drifts back in.

On occasion he has actually lit his fag whilst we were in the dining room with the children and he was stood in the kitchen, so effectively the same room as joined by open double doors. On these occasions we have suddenly realised (no warning given) and angrily taken the children in to the lounge and got their coats on to go. Dh has then had a quick rant at his mother about fils disgusting behaviour and we've left. This has happened several times as it never seems to sink in.. Fil will also light up on his way out and stand in the hall with lit fag saying bye etc whilst smoke drifts in to the lounge where we are.

The second problem is that the house is usually stinking of fag smoke when we visit. We always call before hand when we go because we don't want them to be smoking when we arrive. So they always have warning we are about to turn up. Regardless of this, 9 times out of 10 they just spray a ridiculous amount of air freshner as they believe it 'kills the toxins'. This means when we arrive it absolutely reeks of a heady mix offal smoke and air freshner which makes me feel really ill and terrible that the kids and my unborn baby are being subjected to this. If they don't spray anything (like this evening) it just reeks of smoke. After being there for half an hour tonight I had a headache and felt sick and had to leave. Sometimes my dh opens the window when we're there to let some fresh air in, they never get why he has done this and mil always asks him to close it as she's 'cold'. Oh well that's ok then, better for your grandchildren to breathe in poisonous fumes than you be a bit chilly.

That's the other thing I don't understand, the fact we ring before we go there gives them an ideal opertunity to air the room and open the windows themselves but they never do. They obviously just think the smoke disappears after they smoke and no need to do anything?!

They know by now we don't like smoking and certainly don't want the kids passive smoking but still it just doesn't seem to register they're not doing enough to protect our dc from it

I'm so sick of this, we don't want to fall out with them over it as the dc love visiting on a regular basis. I just want them to 'get' how harmful it is.

I agree you SHOULDN'T have to spell it out but unfortunately some people (particuarly older people), can be very stuck in their ways. I know they're not pensioners but even my parents who are only in their 50's were always very stuck in their ways. Some people also just can't accept that it 'does any harm'.

My aunt is actually proud of the fact that she smoked through all of her pregnancys and it 'didn't do her kids any harm', even though her youngest has asthma and she continues to smoke in the house with him when he's choking, I think this was actually what made my parents see sense.

But ultimately you're left with the options of telling them outright what you would like, just not going round there, or putting up with it.

I understand what you're saying I really do. The problem is, if I stop going round they will be hurt.

Also, my dh has spelt it out on more than one occasion as well as the 'hints' and nothing has changed.

My sil said to fil, 'you can smoke in your house if you like but I won't be here with the dc when you do' or something along those lines. Fil seems to do it a lot less when they are round. I don't know if it's cause they have girls or because they go round less often..

I know I'm just ranting on here really but, as I said, that's cause I don't want to fall out with them over it.

Oooh - OK - they need to make more of and effort and possibly you need to be less huffy about it by putting on their coats to leave.

Bit of communication possibly. If they are not used to kids then they're not going to get it really are they? Can you not make it explicitly clear that when kids around it's not on - got out into the garden. Open windows an hour or two before they come.

I smoke but not in my home so ds doesn't get a my hit. But I do remember being at my grans and she was in a flat with all windows closed and I could see the waves of smoke - my parents did nothing as it was normal in those days. I also take my ds to Italy and dh's family and with his relatives their view is that in my house this is how it is. I don't stick on ds's coat to leave but I do suggest that there's a lovely garden in the sun to go out and smoke in. Hard as they are not my family.

Just communicate your very valid concerns and make it clear that they are kids and hence not to be around smoke and as concerned parents they need to get with this.

How did you cope when your kids were babies?

I have got asthma due to living with a smoker.
My nan got cancer, imo, after living with a smoker.
Maybe the new adverts on passive smoking will help get the message across.

How about you give them the choice: either you play ball or we will not be coming as often.
Having said that, I am not sure that opening windows prior to a visit is going to make a great deal of difference if they otherwise smoke full time in the rooms where you stay.

Giveit - I agree communication could be better on the issue, we're just a bit sick of bringing it up only for the same to keep happening.

It was the same when the dc we're babies, we used to leave if possible without saying much. It terrified me to think of the affects it has on babies, primarily the risk of cot death. I'm due in 9 weeks and I think this is why it's bothering me more as I see them making no extra effort for my newborn niece

Btw both I and dh have asthma.. That's just another thing it doesn't help.

DialM - we're going to have to say something as diplomatically as we can. I know opening windows will not get rid of all the toxins but it has to make some difference.

OP... I have some sympathy with you but honestly, from what you've posted, you and your DH sound very aggressive. Your PIL smoke, they've always smoked and they're going to continue to smoke.

You are going to have to find some ways of coping better than this. If it were me, I'd ask them not to spray air-freshener. What happens if you ask if you can have a window open rather than expecting them to open the window? Would they open it for you to get some air in?

As an ex-smoker, you're ideally placed to show some tolerance towards your PIL who are good and devoted grandparents. You could explain how torn you are between keeping your kids away from the smoke and letting them visit because they love their grandparents.

Tell your MIL that there's no need to hide the smoking but if they will just meet you halfway by getting a window open and smoking in a room with the door closed, you'd be happy (even if you don't get all you want).

Please though, adjust your attitude to them - and encourage your husband to do the same... it would be so easy for this to go very, very wrong and spoil the grandparent/grandchild relationships that mean so much.

... and when the Summer comes (IF it does), arrange some days out in the open air for you all as a family - grandparents too.

Lying - jeez, we aren't aggressive at all! You're honestly getting the wrong impression. I never say a word to either of them about it. I don't feel it's my place.

How is it aggressive for dh to say ' we don't want you smoking around ds, it is harmful to him, he already has a problem with growing and gaining weight and breathing in smoke doesn't help, please don't do it in the same room as he is in sleeping'. I thought that was pretty much spelling it out tbh, he said that to fil about 3 years ago and he has still continued to light up in the same room. Surely that shows a lack of respect and care?

I'll agree dh does get a little stroppy sometimes, fil is exactly the same though, it's just how they communicate with each other. Mil is a lovey person and tbh, apart from the smoking she is a saint (especially compared to my own toxic mother). To be clear, she doesn't just hide the smoking from us. She hides it from everyone and has done her whole life, she never smoked in front of dh or his brothers when they were little and I commend her for that.

The main issue I would say is the non opening of windows and the spraying of air freshner that makes me feel really ill. Despite feeling ill I sit and say nothing and make polite conversation. My other sil isn't quite so polite, she simply says 'it stinks in here, how much air freshner have you sprayed?!'. I wouldn't dream of being so rude but she's like that.

Also, arranging days out etc, they're just not in to that much anymore. We invite them to the beach (5 mins away) and to the park and to feed the ducks etc but mostly they stay in on sunny days smoking and paying on the Xbox

I'm not judging that btw, they've raised 3 boys and are entitled to spend their time as they wish. It just doesn't make it easy for us to see them outdoors. That combined with the fact they hardly come to ours means we always end up going there.

You have a duty to protect your children. If they cared about them they wouldn't smoke in their presence. But you are allowing them to potentially damage your childrens health by continuing to go around there. They are perfectly entitled to smoke in their own home (until the law changes and it's banned completely ) but you have to step up and protect your kids health.
The onus is on you and not them.

It was the bit in your first post about 'angrily getting the childrens' coats on'.

If what your SIL says works then why not just repeat it, ask that they do the same for your DCs? They can't refuse, can they?

I do know it's difficult... smoking is really frowned on and it's not just the smell but the very real health risks - that said, it's very difficult for some people to give up and if they don't want to, it's stalemate really.

Ah yeah the bit about getting the kids coats on. That happened because fil lot his fag whilst stood in the same room and just stood there smoking. I think we were perfectly entitled to get up and leave. We were angry on that occasion as it was only recently and he knows that we don't want him smoking in the same room as them.

OK - so don't be diplomatic now - just tell them how it is. Not how you'll withdraw kids from if they don't toe the line sort of thing, but more along the lines of OK - it's not on - it's not been on for quite some time- we love and adore you and we've had this conversation before many times and nothing has changed. We need to protect our children from harm and so you really really need to understand that we will arrange visits and if you accept them we need your property to be fully aired and for you to smoke outside when the kids are here. It's proper and normal.

Would that work?

God I remember my dad getting angry with gran about her smoking when I was around but she didn'[t get it at all and that was in the late 60's. But now it's not acceptable for anyone.

It seems to me you feel you've told them and that's why you act out your anger rather than reiterate your concerns. It must be frustrating but they will not change their habits but they must change them around your kids. Goodness, do they smoke at your house?

Communicate better and do it now. You cannot rely on them to get your hints.

Yabvu. It's their home.

Yeah, we need to do that. They deffo don't smoke at our house! No way does anyone smoke in our house. They're welcome to use the front or back garden if they wish..

Yes, I agree, we are getting annoyed because we have told them it upsets us and it just seems to fall on deaf ears.

Tbh fil keeps getting ill year after year and even had pneumonia the year before last and was in hospital. Mil has a terrible cough that she has had for years but never sees the dr about it because she's scared of blood tests/needles. This is our other concern, their health We have said they should stop smoking in the past and have said it in a 'we care about you' way but have now had to accept it isn't ever going to happen..

Oooh and congrats and your new addition.

All the more reason for communicating honestly and forcefully (without aggression) as they've not got it so far and they are in a rut.

Goodness, don't envy your situation.

Oh sorry, crossed posts - you've done your best to be subtle and filled it in with anger.

If they are not smoking in your home they can jolly well not smoke in theirs for the duration of their visit.

Dunno - I remember my mil won't travel and wouldn't come to see ds so it meant we were paying lots to go and see her at her bequest. I kind of suggested that she wasn't properly motivated to come and see our ds. It sort of worked for a bit. But then didn't. Is this a tactic you could employ with your pils - ie you are happy not to smoke in my home to see your lovely gcs so what's the issue with your home - surely you could smoke outside for a few hours (and air the house before hand) on gcs visits. Maybe?

And look, I'm a smoker -but I don't inflict it on my kid and so not in my home. My issue if it's cold outside. It's ds's environment as much as mine - and that's my view.

They are not going to change their behaviour if you continue to let them do it with no consequences. Stop going around every day. And tbf to them if you are going that often it is somewhat unfair to not allow them to be comfortable in their own home (hugely anti-smoking here btw).

Let them come to you, if they want to see their DGC then they will visit you.

Yeah, they kind of aren't motivated to come here much. That's not a personal thing, they're the same with the other two bils/sils gc. They just don't go out much. Mil rings every day and if we don't see them for a few days will say she misses the boys so they do want us to go down..

I honestly think they think it's not that harmful because they smoke and are 'ok'. I didn't think smoking was that bad when I did it. It was only after I gave up I realised how bad it had made me feel.

I guess I just feel strongly about it cause the dc have no choice..

If you don't go and visit and she phones and wants to see the DGC then tell her to visit you.

So far you keep taking your DC into their house which is full of smoke fumes, so you are not really sticking to any rules you may have for your DC.

Oh OP I feel for you. The risks are so well documented these days and there's such a big thing made out of the dangers to babies and small children (as there should be). But older people just don't have that level of awareness.

When I first met DH pretty much his whole family smoked (he didn't) and they all did it at the IL's house, around my two very young DN's. I'm so glad that by the time I had DC's most of them had given up. and if they do have a fag they do it outside. (and I'll still technically a smoker myself though I haven't had one for over a year ad wouldn't go near my DC's if I had had one). There is one relative who visits every so often for the weekend, andwho smokes in the house still. DH has made it very clear to MIL that we will not be visiting if he is allowed to smoke in the house when we are there. She made a very big thing out of having to air the house out the first time after this conversation was had, but now it's not a issue.

I really don't know what I would have done if MIL / FIL / BIL's still smoked as they did 10 years ago. DH is very close to his family, and my DC's adore thier GP's, but there is no way I would have let them spend time in that environment.

I think you just need to spell out the health issues as clearly and objectively as you can. I do't agree with the "their house their rules" in this case, it's your DC's health a stake!

Well you either got your children Heath or GP feelings. I know I would pick my children Heath I smoke myself and always go outside, even if parents do smoke around there children I don't