to think the tories are making education elitist?

[ThatVikRinA22]

just watching the news, they are making the A levels harder, saying they are too easy

my boy did maths and physics and trust me - they were not too bloody easy!

my dd is doing GCSEs now, (at 14!! too bloody young imo!) and was doing one science syllabus, the government changed it recently and now, where she would have been awarded a C, she ended up with a D. The science teacher had a rant about the tories at parents evening....

so, now A levels are going to get harder, getting into uni is going to be harder plus more expensive, does this spell and end for opportunities for all to go to uni?

is it going to be the reserve of the very bright and the very rich?

I think it's probably a good idea, we seem to have have lost the love of knowledge for it's own sake.

Surely this needs to start with Primary schools not being forced [for want of a better word] to teach to exam, namely sats.

What do you think?

That's not possible. Not in my subject, anyway, 80% minimum to get an A. So either they were not equally weighted, or that subject was differently assessed, or you misunderstood how many you were supposed to do.

"How on earth can over 98% pass an exam"

Because if the student looks like they wouldn't pass A-level, they are not allowed to continue with it in Y13! The only people sitting A-levels are the people who got decent grades for it at AS-level, that's why the pass rate is high, not because they're pifflingly easy.

I agree, if it was much harder to get in to Uni then it might be feasible to consider gov. funded tuition again, but as soon as the idea of everyone going caught on, it was only a matter of time before fees were brought in. Vicar you have to make changes at some point - you said something about changing them between generations but where is the gap? In most jobs the experience of older candidates outweighs the qualifications so employers don't weigh a 50 year old's A levels against a 22 year old and make a choice based on that.

University should be the preserve of the very bright. If it hadn't been tinkered with in the first place and if numbers had been extended beyond the very bright, we wouldn't be in the bind we are now in in relation to fees. It is not possible to subsidise the numbers who ended up going and who didn't really and truly need a degree to do the jobs they ended up with. Clerical/admin jobs do not need a degree, neither do bank tellers, retail workers and the lower rungs of the civil service.

I am sick to death of interviewing the very well qualified (two or three masters degrees) who are unable to communicate either orally or in writing and who are unable to perform in job related tests. There is a world of difference between being well educated and well or over qualified.

This country desperately needs to expand vocational qualifications and start to value the essential trades far more highly. Young people need to be equipped with the foundation and life skills to succeed at work that they are able to be good at.

What was wrong with the old polytechnics where more vocationally based qualifications were studied and work related skills obtained: pharmacy, engineering, business studies, etc?

What would be wrong with young people branching off into more vocational subjects at 14, 15, 16, whilst still receiving a good grounding in the working use of literacy and number. A good enough grounding to run small businesses when they had obtained the practical skills to do so such as hairdressing, plumbing, mechanics, secretarial skills, etc.?

Vocational qualifications would be welcomed. However Gove sneers at them and says that they are overrated and don't count for league tables and don't fit into his Ebacc and so schools will be shunning them in favour of forcing non-academic kids into unsuitable courses merely to boost their league table position.

Gove's entire view of education is centred around what he did at school.

When I read that the A level english set texts are now dr Corelli 's mandolin and the northern nights then it is time they made it harder and put Dickens, Austen, Hardy and Chaucer back on the curriculum

University should be elitist but in terms of ability not wealth.

ThePathanKhansWitch I am not sure if you were talking to someone specifically or in general, but I completely agree that we should stop teaching to exams, especially in primary age.

Surely the best thing would be if politicians (who have short term goals) would stop interfering. You can't compare exams from 30 years ago with today. Of course curricula change.

absolutely everything marriedinwhite said.

I don't think university is about becoming an employee which is the way people want to seem to go.

Have people forgotten that you got training when you first started jobs? life experience and common sense etc comes from wider sources than an exam or two.

Universities should be for the academically gifted. However going to university shouldn't be the hallmark of a good employee - I don't think a degree makes you a good manager for example.

ThisIs I'm not an educator, and was interested what you all thought.Thankyou for answering.

A few years ago a good friends DD got up every morning and vomited before her Sats. Just awful, thats not education is it?

We will end up stifling the "quirky" free thinking inventiveness this country has always been absurdly blessed with.

I agree as well vocational courses need to be valued, maybe if we had a large manufacturing base left, we wouldn't be feeling the pinch so hard at the moment.

The current system is a shambles.

The presumption is made that most children can be academically gifted and that simply isn't the case.

There is a massive void in vocational education.

I work in civil engineering and with each year the number of people prepared to do actual physical work diminishes. And trust me it's not lack of money. Some blokes that work under me earn upwards of £50K and they are worth every penny.

And yet you see some graduates who seem to have a sense of entitlement that they should walk into £30K+ jobs based on them doing 3/4 years of what quite frankly is a poor degree.

Young people have been sold a complete lemon and that needs to change. But then so do they're expectations.

A typical A level course these days requires rattling through the syllabus at great speed in order to cram everything in before the next set of module exams. This doesn't make them easy but it does mean there is very little time to do extra reading and learn how to apply knowledge compared to my experience of A levels 25ish years ago. I would get rid of January modules for a start and just keep summer exams (I'm sick of having teenagers revising over Christmas).

I like the Jan modules. It gives the kids who think that they can just carry on coasting like they did at GCSE a bit of a shock when they realise that they actually do need to put a bit of independent work in.

When you have universities doing remedial classes in maths for students who got a A* in the subject before they can let them on secince or engineering degrees

Somthing is very wrong only labour and people who hate children want the a levels and gcse kept dumb down

And this bunisess of if you fail just keep re sitting until you barely pass is just wrong in my view every child in the uk should sit their a levels on the same day at the same time if you don't pass that's it

That's what separates the weat from the chaff, we have teachers going on course provided by the testers on how to pass the test

We have children re sitting with in a inch of their life

We have unis having to spend the first year going over what should have been taught at a level

We have people who should be no we're near uni do media just for the sake of it not realising their degree from some god awful uni won't get them a job frying chips let alone to work in the media

Degrees unless from a Russell group uni isn't worth the paper it's written on these days

Sparks I would love my daughter to go into engineering, would just love it.

I spoke to a group of teens a few weeks ago, and they all wanted Media type jobs I think really they want to be famous.

Also this thing were course cp work can be done at googled done at home is just flipping mad.

Vicar fees can't triple between years 2 and 3 of a degree. Students remain on the fee system they started their degree on. Hence the mad rush for places in 2011-12.

Universities should be for the bright and I think it is good that A' levels may be made more robust and prepare young people better for HE. However I think we should improve the content and status of our quals across the board including vocational ones.

webwiz 40years ago, I can safely say that I didn't do any extra reading for A levels. I just learnt the notes I'd written down off the board. Maybe A levels improved 25 years ago!

Sparks totally agree my oh is a nurse and you defo see a difference now in the type of nurses that are coming in with degrees to posh to wash as my oh says

Know all the theory but can they make a bed or clean up poo with out a issue like fuck they can

Just today oh had to tell one of these to posh to wash nurses off for trying to get a HCA to clean up some sick when the HCA was clearly busy