To wonder why people are so ill informed about chicken pox?

[knackeredmother]

I have encountered 2 people in the last 2 days who have allowed their infectious chicken pox children to mix with others.
My ds has respiratory problems and is frequently on steroids so needs to avoid contact. We are just waiting for him to be off steroids for a few weeks so he can be vaccinated (on hospital advice). I am also a health professional so have seen first hand the devastating effects the pox can have on cancer patients and pregnant women for example.
I realise therefore that I am more sensitive than most about this topic.
However, last week a new neighbour invited my ds to play , when I picked him up I saw her dd was covered with weeping ( not healed) chicken pox sores. When I asked her if her dd had chicken pox she just replied 'oh has he not had it?'. I explained about his immune system being suppressed with steroids but she did not seem to get it.
Today I have just met another mother in a soft play with her...yes you've guessed it.....chicken pox laden ds. Again not healed over, spots came out yesterday.
This mum is intelligent and lovely and I think I may have just spoiled a potential friendship with my little rant about the risks. She genuinely did not realise and said she thought as chickenpox was so common that people didn't really bother keeping them inside anymore.
So, AIBU to think the majority of people are ignorant of the quarantine advice re chicken pox and if so WHY is this?
Oh and expect a post from me in a week or so with a ds hospitalised with varicella pneumonia (pessimist, me? Never!)

"as i was told by yhe doc after spots out he posed no risk,"

No...once the last spot is out and all spots completely crusted over (ie. non-weeping), he posed no risk.

What hope is there if doctors are misinforming parents?

Sorry if I'm repeating anyone else, but cp can be horrible for pregnant ladies. I caught it when in 1st trimester and had to have nasty, very painful immunoglobulin (sp?) jabs, followed by scans every 3-4 weeks to monitor baby's growth/development (Google possible effects - awful). My consultant told me that this wouldn't be a very pleasant pregnancy (at 15 weeks), due to uncertainty of the effects, until some time after the birth. DD is, thankfully, ok - although it may have had a slight adverse effect on her hearing. Like others, I didn't understand the 'dark side' of this disease until going through it. Don't understand why we are so ill-informed about it in the UK. I think it's part of routine vacs in the US.

I think its a mixture of selfishness and not realising the risks.

CP has been doing the rounds here. One friend at school pick up kept her infected son in the buggy away from everyone else. Then the next week another friend let her infected son run round the playground while waiting for his brother. I was a bit

I've never had CP and have been vaccinated. I think some sort of screening process should be introduced to prevent the risk of catching CP while pregnant.

If my DSs hadn't had CP as young children I would have defiantly paid to have them vaccinated.

DS2 has now got CP (I wonder where from!!!). I will be keeping him in until he has crusted over but feel like I'm in a minority.

I hope your DS is Ok.

I thought once spots came out you were no longer contagious??

I am sooo wrong!

Having seen an otherwise totally healthy child with complications, for me this one is a no-brainer. Of course they should be isolated. I was horrified when a friend took her 2 year old to the supermarket at the height of his infection (i.e. day 2) because she was too bored to stay in any longer .

We vaccinated.

"No...once the last spot is out and all spots completely crusted over (ie. non-weeping), he posed no risk.

What hope is there if doctors are misinforming parents? "

HPA advice is 5 days from onset of rash

All pregnant women who come into contact with Chicken Pox should immediately contact their GP/Midwife, btw. They can do IgA and IgG tests (blood tests) which show whether you have immunity from past incidence or if you are developing antibodies (ie. recently infected). There is limited treatment if you are shown to be unprotected and have been exposed.

From NHS UK:

Chickenpox during pregnancy can cause complications both for the pregnant woman and the unborn baby. However, the risk of complications is low.

It?s rare to get chickenpox when you?re pregnant. In the UK, it?s estimated that about three in every 1,000 women (0.3%) catch chickenpox during pregnancy. Most pregnant women who get chickenpox recover, with no adverse effects on the baby.
When to get medical advice

Seek advice from your GP or midwife immediately if you?re pregnant and:

you think you may have chickenpox
you know that you haven?t had chickenpox or you?re not sure, and you?ve been near someone with chickenpox (even if you have no rash or other symptoms)

Also contact your GP or midwife immediately if you get chickenpox within seven days of giving birth.
Complications for pregnant women

You have a higher risk of complications from chickenpox if you?re pregnant and you:

smoke
have a lung condition, such as bronchitis or emphysema
are taking or have taken steroids during the previous three months
are more than 20 weeks pregnant

Up to one in 10 pregnant women with chickenpox can develop pneumonia (inflammation of the lungs). Other rare complications include inflammation of other parts of the body, such as the:

brain (encephalitis)
liver (hepatitis)
heart muscle (myocarditis)
kidneys (glomerulonephritis)
appendix (appendicitis)
pancreas (pancreatitis)

Very rarely, complications from chickenpox during pregnancy can be fatal.
Complications for the unborn baby

Complications that can affect the unborn baby vary, depending on how many weeks pregnant you are when you get chickenpox.

If you catch chickenpox up to 28 weeks of pregnancy, there?s no evidence that it increases your risk of miscarriage. However, there?s a small risk that the baby can develop foetal varicella syndrome (FVS). FVS can damage the baby?s eyes, legs, arms, brain, bladder or bowel. Research has shown that FVS can affect one to two in every 100 babies (1-2%).

If you catch chickenpox between 28 and 36 weeks, the virus stays in the baby's body but doesn?t cause any symptoms. However, it may become active again in the first few years of the baby?s life, when it causes shingles.

If you catch chickenpox after 36 weeks, the baby may be infected and could be born with chickenpox.
Complications for the newborn baby

The baby may develop severe chickenpox and will need treatment if you get chickenpox:

around the time of the birth and the baby is born within seven days of your rash developing
up to seven days after giving birth

WidowWaman, that advice is because a child is infectious from one to two days before the onset of the rash, until the last spot has crusted over. However, if a child is covered in spots, it can be very hard to tell which is the 'last spot' and as research has shown that in the vast majority of cases, the last spot will have erupted and crusted over by day 5 or 6 after the eruption of the first spot, it is sensible to offer the more concrete guidance of '5 days after the onset of the rash'.

The risk of giving the general advice 'last spot crusted over, is that the rash can appear in waves, and one set of spots can be crusted over, whilst another set have only just erupted. The general pattern is that a new wave can occur within about 3 days of onset, and it takes 1-2 days for the eruptions to crust over.

I repeat what about a bad cold.Should we stay holed up at home incase we encounter someone with compromised immunity?

A cold is a different level of risk to chicken pox, and much harder to predict the severity of. What causes a bad cold in one person might be barely noticed by someone else.

When my DD was immunosuppressed I felt that a cold was a 'normal' thing to encounter, and that was a risk that we should accept, where I felt that going out with infectious chicken pox was not a 'normal' thing to expect, and so found it very concerning that people would knowingly take out an infectious child. Especially as we had been told by the GP that if my DD was in contact with anyone with chicken pox then she would have to have intramuscular injections in hospital as a precaution.

i thought it is common sense to stay indoors or away from people when you have chickenpox?

i did with my first three, tho my HV!! told me to go to toddler groups as normal as it was fine and people would catch it anyway!! a toddler group with new babies and pregnant women!!! i ignored her 'advice'

my ds4 and dd havent had it yet but it is doing the rounds at pre-school, they have both been full of cold so i am on the look out for spots!

it was ds4's bday party the other week and i was paranoid he would get it for the party, but on speaking to the other parents of kids invited, almost all had alreayd had it and so would have been happy to still come to the party if he had got it and those that hadnt had it would have come over as they wanted their kids to get it and get it out of the way (these are 3-4yr olds)

as it was he didnt get it for his party, but we were going to have the party anyway (if he was well enough) and inform those coming so they could make an informed choice as to whether they wanted to come or not) which i think is fair enough, but blindly taking your infectious child out is not ok.

ariadne and others, when my DD was having her chemo (for just over two years of her life btw) we were told not to worry about colds unless she was severely compromised, in which case we needed to keep her in the house. This was because colds were not likely to kill her as long as we followed strict precautions i.e. rushing her into hospital the instant she seemed significantly unwell or ran a moderate to high temperature. In this case, she would have blood cultures and swabs taken and be pumped full of antibiotics/antifungals/antivirals as necessary.

However, we were warned that there were certain viruses that would be much more dangerous for her and could easily kill or disable her even with prompt treatment. Thankfully most of these such as measles are immunised against, so the only common one we needed to panic about regularly was chickenpox.

Thankfully she only encountered cp twice during her treatment and as the other parents in her school and nursery were responsible and called in immediately she was able to have the injections in time (v painful, btw).

To reiterate from my earlier post, there are 10,000 children and teenagers currently having treatment for cancer. The majority of them will be on treatment for two years or more, having chemotherapy every single day their bodies can handle it, just like my DD. That is a lot of our children; one in 500 will develop cancer as a child, rising to roughly one in 330 before their 20th birthday. They fight like hell and their lives are brutal enough without having to lose years of their lives in isolation so others don't have to be bored for five days. What is five days compared to two to three years?

This is only the cancer kids, there are thousands of other immunosuppressed kids and countless immunosuppressed adults out there. They may not be healthy children and so seem to be irrelevant or matter less to some but damn it they matter and it could be a child you love tomorrow.

Please anyone who is still on the fence on this, reconsider. Yes it is true that susceptible people can contact a child that is incubating it without knowing, but how much more likely are they to contact it if your child is out and about whilst infectious for double the time? Not only does your child have double the chance of passing it on directly but they may also have infected another ten children in that extra five days they walked around knowingly infectious. That means a massive increase in the risk of a transmission to a susceptible individual.

My DD is better now (hopefully for good) but if she catches cp we will stay home gladly and immediately get in touch with school so anyone that needs treatment can get it as fast as possible. Please everyone do likewise.

Knackeredmother - how is your DS? I hope he is ok and CP hasn't appeared and you're enjoying Easter x

Joandmax thanks for asking, as it happens he got admitted to hospital last night with severe respiratory distress. He had a terrible stridor so went straight onto dexamethasone for presumed croup. He also has a crop of spots to his trunk that may or may not be chicken pox, we are waiting to see how they develop.
Anyway, it wouldn't be a true bank holiday in our house without a admission to hospital!

AN admission, not a admission. Sorry!

Oh no, you poor things. I hope it turns out to be something else, the constant hospital admissions really take I out of you don't they?

Well I sympathise and can imagine we'll be there before too long. DS2 has woken up covered in spots and already sounding really chesty.... Trying desperately hard not to cry in front of DCs as I'm worried and stressed. We're supposed to be going on our first holiday since DS2 next week, typical timing eh??!!!

Let us know how your DS goes, big un-mumsnetty hugs xx

Bloomin big hugs to you too. Does your ds have respiratory problems too ( sorry if you've already said).
I understand the stress, it's just so draining isn't it and the timing is always wrong. We've lost thousands in cancelled holidays. This current admission is in a different hospital as we are on holiday for Easter!
I've got my fingers crossed for you.

Hope he gets out of there soon and no complications x

DS2 has problems with aspiration and some kidney and heart issues (we still have no definite diagnosis....) so gets nasty chest infections at the drop of a hat and if there's a complication to be had he'll get it!!

I'm very lucky to have a fantastic GP who came and saw us this morning, at the moment his chest is all clear but he's given us some Cefalexin just incase and DS2 is now nil by mouth to avoid aspirations - he has a button so no problems keeping him nourished and hydrated.

Enjoying lovely sleepy cuddles at the moment!

I went to a children's farm on Sunday which has a soft play barn attached to it. I popped into the barn to get a drink while dp waited outside with the ds's and running around playing (in a packed soft play) was a little girl covered head to toe (well the bits I could see) in spots, some had scabs on, but most were just 'erupting'. I overheard the mother saying that her dd had the spots but wasn't feeling poorly so brought her out as she was bored (?!?!) I mentioned it to dp and he was a bit 'meh, they've got to get it sometimes blah blah' but that's not the point. Luckily my ds's have good health but there could have been immuno-compromised children/adults/pg women there.

My colleagues son had a very bad (and rare ) reaction to cp and is now paralysed from the chest down :(

I get on my high horse a bit about this, as I've seen what my colleague and her son went/are going through, but if your child has cp, stay at bloody home.

My son came out in spots yesterday. Will be taking sensible precautions for the next week. Thank you for the information about why we need to keep them away from others.

That's lovely to hear Peppermint. I hope he gets well soon.

Until a month ago I'd have been on the more blase side of cp. DS1 (2.3) had cp about 6 weeks ago - it was going round his nursery & he was one of the last to get it. I honestly can't remember if I rigidly kept him but we did check visitors with children knew etc etc. As I'm on ml atm, I ended up being surrogate nursery to some of his friends as their parents couldn't get other childcare. He was itchy, had plenty of spots but was otherwise completely normal (ie manic toddler!). DS2 (8 months) came out in spots 2 weeks later shortly AFTER leaving hospital having had a few days of countless as yet to be diagnosed properly seizures and has just come off a huge course of antibiotics recovered from a mass of swollen infected glands, and many many days of being properly grumpy, I'd never before heard of anyone having anything like this reaction to what is probably all linked to cp (have paed follow up next week).
Knackered sending your ds get well soon wishes