To think my kids are actually spoilt and I need to change that?

[ChickenSkin]

I'm a single parent to two boys aged 11 and 13. Their father pays minimum maintenance (£140 a month for both, tell me how far that goes!) and I pay for everything else including all school trips, all uniforms, all clothes, days out, holidays etc - everything. I allow them to go on whatever school trips comes up (currently youngest is going on a short residential costing me £160 and eldest is going abroad costing £380). I take them on holiday every year (they've been everywhere from the Med to the USA). Whenever they ask for new clothes, I buy them. I've just bought my son a pair of nike astro trainers for PE because he lost on of his current pe trainers (that he's had 2 months max). What I'm trying to say is, they do not "go without" just because they're from a single parent family (and I'm not saying that most kids of single parent familes do go without, I'm just saying that despite how hard it is, they don't suffer).

Anyway, they go to their dad's house every other weekend - and on that weekend they're sat in front of the xbox. They never actually go anywhere or do anything. On the weekends they're with me I developed this "habit" of taking them out as if it's "my access weekend", despite the fact they're with me 95% of the time anyway. This would include cinema trips, restaurants, days out to the sea-side - whatever I do usually costs me around £30 a fortnight.

What is now pissing me off is the sense of entitlement they've developed.

"Mum, what are we doing at the weekend? cinema? hmff boring! oh god, carvery AGAIN?? ohhh I HATE that seaside place --- " you get the picture.
This weekend I didn't plan anything as I have them off school for the full two weeks and I needed to save money. So eldest decided to start a one man war against me, demanding a takeaway to make up for not doing anything on the "treat" weekend, saying I'm "tight", saying that he'd just go and order one for himself since I'm "Being boring" etc - I am really, really annoyed.
I had plans to take them out to Frankie And Benny's next week but I'm thinking of scrapping it.

What kids their age get to go out to the cinema and restaurants etc as well as holidays and stuff as often as these two do? considering I'm only earning £20k a year. Yes I know the income could be less but ffs, life aint cheap in Britain is it??!

AIBU to just knock this "fortnightly weekend treat" thing on the head and instead change to a policy that I might randomly decide to take them out on the odd weekend that they're with me? However, nothing is set in stone?

They also get weekly £5 pocket money each off me btw.

I want rid of this entitlement they have developed.

Aw much props to you its hard to admit, dont be too hard on yourself I think their is a difference between indulged and spoilt you can make a change.

"AIBU to just knock this "fortnightly weekend treat" thing on the head?" Nope, not at all, you hold the reins! If they kick up a fuss tell them that's just too bad. They will learn soon enough.

Maybe a "trip" to a homeless shelter, or volunteer centre? It might open their eyes a little.

They sound very lucky to have you OP (not necessarily spoilt though although a risk of going that way) and they are old enough to not expect treats all of the time.

I suppose they think the weekend treats are part and parcel of what they "expect" from you IYSWIM?
If you want to knock it on the head then just say "I'm tired of all this being taken for granted. It's costing a lot and we need to save money if you want to go on X, Y,Z school trip etc. as I'm not made of money"
If your son was threatening to just order a takeaway himself how was he planning on paying for it?

He has his own bank account with debit card and he was going to order the takeaway online with it.

Good for you for a) seeing what's happening and b) having the guts to admit what's happening. They have got too used to the treats and the outings and yes, of course you're not unreasonable to slow things down.

I had a similar issue with my oldest when he was the same sort of age - in the end I actually sat him down with my bank statement and Excel and showed him what was coming in and what was going out. We went through everything. It sorted the problem.

You're being taken for granted for sure. I'd stop taking them out places every weekend you have them, they're more than old enough to entertain themselves anyway, without you spending a small fortune on making them happy.

Both of them are old enough to realise that money doesn't come out of thin air whenever you feel like it and days out, eating out etc costs money.

And honestly replacing stuff either one has lost with something equally expensive isn't going to stop it happening again. Learnt that from my dad who bought my younger brother 3 phones in 7 months totalling about £250 in all because he kept losing them. (My brother was 12 at the time). It wasn't til he lost the third one that my dad blew his top and said no more and stopped buying him new ones. My brother got my ancient old Nokia instead

I have no idea how you do all that on 20k a year. YANBU.

You can get a debit card at 13? Crikey! I rarely had more than a tenner to my name at that age, a debit card would have been pointless. How times have changed. If he was going to pay for it himself then so be it, I would have let him get on with it and then had no reaction when he was eating it. If he did it just to spite you rather than actually wanting the takeaway, and then had no reaction at all from you he would have shot himself in the foot and been annoyed, would have probably taught himself a lesson.

Sounds like your assessment of their attitude is right.

But then the things you do with them are not a treat are they? They are part of their routine. You have raised the bar of what it will take to impress them quite high, so it is a shame, but perhaps not surprisingly they are not demonstrating the level of gratitude you (quite rightly) think they should. Your perspective and theirs are worlds apart - but so are your life experiences. To you these things are gifts bestowed by caring parent, to them it is a 26 times a year predictable occurrence.

Some re-allignment back to reality sounds helpful.

I too am astounded you have managed all this - you are obviously a dedicated and caring Mum. :)

Well, I wonder - does he know the actual cost of a takeaway? Will he be ordering just for himself?

Maybe you should say "Fine, go ahead and order a takeaway. Are you going to be doing this every fortnight?"

OR you could say "How kind of you to treat us all"

If my kids loose something I ask them how they plan to fix it.

Perhaps you could have them contribute to some of the trips they are taking. If I ask my kids to do that then suddenly they are way less grabby. I would be fine having my kid pay for takeaway for himself. "It isn't in the budget this week, do you want to pay for it?"

Excellent take on the situation, GIN.

It can become normalised and thus, expected.

My own DTS's were quite indulged. Particularly when I started work full time and became a lone parent when they were aged 10. I didn't expect them to be "grateful" but appreciative-which they were, in the main.

However, I will always remember one Christmas when they were 8, and I had bought them a really nice, wooden, roll top desk each (they had just started to get homework at primary)It was part of a biggish haul, of other stuff I knew they wanted. One DTS, ripped off the paper, and I saw the light drain from his eyes and his smile die, before an "Oh" and a swift "Er, thanks".

I asked if he liked it and he answered quite unselfconsciously "Er, it's alright, and I suppose we need a desk, but it doesn't actually do anything mummy"

It made me think about that bar I had set, and the ways I had been overcompensating for not having had a particularly fun, or indulged childhood in terms of material things/experiences

Yes and No,
I mean what else would you do if you knocked this weekend thing on the head ?
We go out as a family every other weekend because I'd go up the bloody wall if we didn't.
If money's an issue then find a cheaper way of doing it, cook their favourite, let them choose the meals etc but I think what you are describing is fairly normal family life.
I make a massive deal about how lucky my children are to their faces, how I hope they appreciate mummy and daddy did not have these treats when we grew up and not every child has them so I think that's what you need to reinforce not start l;iving like a trio of monks to make the point.

A desk wouldn't have lit my eyes up at 8 either tbh.

Your dc are lucky.

Indeed, Heswell, which is why I didn't feel overly miffed with him! He was used to gizmos and gadgetry and having the latest "in" thing...which were still forthcoming that Christmas, but not in the biggest parcel ;)

I saw outings, holidays etc as part of normal family life. I didn't have a problem with DTS's feeling secure in the knowledge that these things were and would be, given to them. Not that they would or should have every whim met, mind.

I resented having fuck all compared to my peers as a younger kid. I did tell them that my own childhood was not treat rich, and expect them to take care of their things....that was about it, really.

I was bemused by a lot of the threads in a similar vein, in the run up to Christmas. Posters hand wringing about so called "ungrateful" DC and threats to give their presents to charity or haul them off to Soup Kitchens to learn a "life lesson".

I wouldn't knock it on the head. At 11 and 13 they are old enough to be involved in the decision making, they're also old enough to understand that money is limited.

I'd set a budget and suggest a few options or get a local guide/let them on the internet to find anything local that's cheap or free.

Keep the cinema for films they really want to see. The cinema is expensive. For £30 you could do two nights of DVDs and supermarket 'takeaways'.

Give them a choice between the weekend treat or Frankie and Benny's. A compromise would be McDs or Pizza Hut to eat and do something else with the rest of the money.

I actually asked for a desk at 8 and didn't get one because it was too expensive.

Stop the trips. Go for free days out - picnics etc. If they lose something make them save to replace it. If it's something essential for school replace it with the cheapest rubbish you can find.

They'll soon learn.

actually i dont think your children are spoiled because you take the somewhere every weekend and go on holidays, buy them new trainers etc. i think if you can do that for them and are happy to do all these things then why not. i think the problem is their attitude towards what you do for them. there is no appreciation of how hard you work to afford it or how much effort you put in on a daily basis to make their lives very comfortable. you should be able to treat your children as often as you like but remember to teach them to be grateful for it and teach them an understanding of how lucky they are and teh sort of work that goes into making their lives as nice as they are. teenagers can be a tough audience though so it might be a difficult time to get them on side. but if they aren't happy to play ball, well then, dont play ball. (stop the trips and holidays etc)

I think it is very easy to over indulge your children when you are a lone parent. I used to find myself doing similar things when I was single.

If I look deep into myself, and admit why I was like that, I suppose that there is no other adult in the house to give you an outside opinion and rein you in, you like to do things with them as you feel you are the sole provider and want to make sure they have as food a time as their friends from two parent households. It could also be because you yourself want to go on holiday, go out and do things, and it gives you a reason to do nice stuff as well. I have to say it was as much to satisfy my needs as the dcs.

You can change it, I did, but your eldest is at a difficult age, and probably now sees himself as "the man of the house" so you could have a battle on your hands. Gradual downsizing of the treats is what I recommend. I used to have a cow shaped money box, it was the cash cow. If I persuaded them not to have an ice cream/the most expensive thing on the menu/cans of rink/cinema (have movie night at home instead) I would put the money saved in the cash cow. We would regularly count it out, once there was a decent amount we took it in turns to choose a blowout treat. Let's them learn the value of money too.

I'm staggered,how on earth do you afford all that on £20K a year,just how???????

My dp earns double that and my dc haver been on a plane and we camp every year.Even the cinema is too much(let alone restaurants) unless it's Kids AM(and then we smuggle in snacks).Never have a take away etc.We do lovely outdoor stuff but it's all free.No way could I pay those prices for school trips.Never go to restaurants unless it's an absolute treat or grandparents pay.

I even have to budget in ice creams for a treat.Just spent the day on the moors in the stream with a picnic and they had a £1 ice cream they were chuffed to bits about.

We don't even give them pocket money,they get £1 a week from grandparents.

Even though I long for holidays etc I'm kind of glad that when we do do stuff the kids appreciate absolutely everything.They're already beyond excited about camping(in a field)-again!!!!!Funnily enough my dtwin boys would kill for individual desks.

I think you're doing the right thing,I'd cut the lot and put it all into a pension for you otherwise where do they go from here as adults?

Sorry to be nosey but are you living rent/mortgage free or something,I just don't get how anybody could live that lifestyle on £20K?

Tax credits is my guess, £20k goes a long way when topped up

No advice but blimey how on earth do you do all that on £20? We earn way over you but dd has never been abroad and she's 8. It's camping in the uk for us.

I agree with the poster upthread who says these things have now become 'expectations' instead of 'treats'. If you get something 26 times a year, then it's hard to think of it as something rare and special. But OTOH why shouldn't you have fun times with your kids?

What I would do is use these holidays to do some gentle re-education. Sit them down, tell them what the budget is for the first week and work out what you can do with that. I'd then make that part of your routine - say every month you say 'we have X amount so what can we do with it?'. It gives them a bit of control and will be a good lesson for them.

Oh and when DS says 'I'm going to order a takeaway online with my own money' the correct answer is 'how kind of you DS, make mine a pepperoni'.