How much do you need to earn to be happy?

[Dolcelatte]

Having been on Mumsnet for 4-5 months now it seems there is quite a cross section of people in terms of money, jobs, status, aspirations etc. Some seem to get by on comparatively little and appear happy, whereas others seem to be relatively rich but complain that they are struggling. Obviously, you can't put a price on good health, family and friends etc. But, that apart, just wondering, AIBU to ask how much money do you need to be happy?

Of course money buys you freedom!!! Freedom from money worries, freedom from time consuming tasks associated with having little money and therefore fewer choices etc. Freedom to walk away from a crap job, Freedom to go on holiday anywhere you want..... lots of sorts of freedoms - maybe not freedom from imprisonment if you live in a nasty dictatorship (though I bet it could bribe a few freedoms in that scenario too) but plenty of worthwhile freedoms go with money. Anyone who can't see that has possibly never been properly poor imo.

I guess the difference is that if you're poor, there's a high chance that money worries, as described by Slippers at least contribute to that misery, so the lack of money is a factor. Conversely, people who are rich and miserable are usually not miserable as a result of their wealth, but due to independent factors.

Therefore, if you were miserable primarily because you had massive money worries, and then won the lottery, you would probably be happy- so money can buy happiness or at least reduce misery. But, if you were miserable because of other reasons (being poor didnt worry you in the first place) then you're going to be as miserable with your lottery win.

My question was actually prompted because I am sorting out a cupboard (been putting it off for ages) and found lots of old 'photos. I echo what is said above. One of my happiest times was at university when I was skint - but we all were, so it didn't matter.

Then I found 'photos of my wedding day and my children when they were babies (they are now teenagers) and we all look so happy.

I was a partner in a large law firm for many years. At first that was happy too, but I became progressively more miserable until in the end it felt as though I was working at Mc Donalds - ok, we processed files instead of burgers but it was the same sort of environment. I did earn a lot of money but I wasted a lot of it on things I didn't need - to try to cheer myself up, but it didn't really work. I developed high blood pressure and depression.

I now work as an independent consultant and have total flexibility and often work from home. I am blissfully happy, spend lots of time with my DDs - we often go out for lunch or to the theatre for a matinee, sometimes bowling. My blood pressure is back to normal, my depression cleared as soon as I left. I don't earn as much (still into six figures, since someone asked - for some reason, someone always wants to know the specifics).

My conclusion is that it is a law of diminishing returns - once you have what you want/need at a certain level, it is counterproductive to earn any more.

My needs/wants? Apart from health, family and friends - my dogs, my radio, books, theatre, countryside, town, food, and a good bottle of wine (oh and somewhere to live of course!).

I don't think money buys happiness but it can alleviate and prevent a lot of unhappiness. Therefore, I'd say enough money to keep you warm, well-fed and free of desperation will probably pay a part in allowing you the chance to be happy through other means.

I don't want to earn it, I want enough not to have to work ever. So that's a lot

What's your definition of happiness?

I suspect the answer is a little bit more than you currently do

I think money definately helps to make you feel happy.
If you cannot pay the bills then you are bound to feel unhappy about it.
I would like more than we currently have as we find it a struggle every month to pay everything then enjoy a decent standard of living. Although it is very subjective.
We are struggling to go away this year, but I tend to buy the kids decent clothes but not many(if that makes sense!).
Having sky doesn't bother me whilst we really couldn't manage without a car. I would have to prably pack in work so money helps different people in different ways.
Having said that if you are a millionnaire then getting an extra 30 million might not make you much happier. However if you suddenly won one million pounds then it might change your life for the better.

Blimey Dolcelatte, I've just read your last post.

I too would be blissfully happy if I earned a six figure salary.
For many people ,myself included, we cannot just go to the cinema whenever we like. I don't mean to sound bitter there btw!!! so as you can imagine if after paying all the bills all you have left will buy EITHER a cinema ticket plus money for some lunch for dd1, or a day out at bowling for ds1 then the fact that you don't have enough money to please both dcs can make people unhappy.

I read a study that showed that there was a link between happiness and what you earned in comparison to your peers. The 'happiest' people seemed to be those who earned just fractionally more than most of their peers, implying that it's mostly about relative wealth (you can feel poor on £60,000 a year if all your friends earn £100,000 but wealthy if you earn £20,000 and all your friends are on benefits).

How they measured 'happiness' though I don't know, but clearly there's an element of social standing in there.

Dolce well at the risk of offending you, I still think your question is weird.

For an ex lawyer your use of language is not very precise.

If all you meant was "Does having a lot of money make you happy" fair enough.

But you asked this in a really odd way- it's not as I said before an AIBU type of question.

You are still in a very, very, privileged position to earn over £100K working from home, for yourelf.

I earn a fraction of that though my DH and I together have 6 figures.

I'd love to buy a 2nd home, or even 3 homes, buy a bigger main house, give money to my aged parents, set my two just graduated kids up in a house which, thanks to the previous government , they are never likely to be able to buy, buy myself designer clothes, more holidays, nicer car, and so on.......

would that make me happy? It might make me a bit happier, but overall it's the health and love of nearest and dearest that matters and all the rest is just froth, as long as life is reasonably comfortable.

It is a chance I am willing to take LeQueen

There was a survey wasn't there that basically said that as long as you have a roof and a full tummy you'd be fine but given the way things are going with education, health service etc I suspect it'll once again be survival of the richest as it always ever was.

Having enough is to be able to have everything you need and to have a little bit left over to have a little of what you want. How much varies from family to family.

My mother used to tell me "it's better to be poor and happy than rich and miserable but if you are going to be miserable it's far better to be rich and miserable than poor and miserable.

Most people seem to always want more than they have though, don't they? I think if you can train yourself out of that mindset, you're much happier.

It's pretty much certain that rich people are happier than poor ones, and by poor I mean unable to or struggling to pay for the necessities of life and the odd treat. Clearly the things that bring most happiness for most of us can't be bought- loved ones. But it's much harder to enjoy your loved ones when you're poor. This morning when I woke up, I cuddled up to DH and felt my baby kicking in my belly. I felt like the luckiest woman on the planet. Being rich wouldn't have improved it- I'd have probably been on Egyptian cotton sheets in a posher house, but that wouldn't have made a big difference. Being poor might have spoiled it though. If DH and I didn't both have jobs, I might have woken up worrying about it. And if we had no money for food, it would've been harder to ignore the slight nausea. So money doesn't help you with some of the most important things in life, but not having enough makes it harder for you to enjoy them.

The big issue of course is whether people with a bit of disposable income are happier than people with loads. That's where individual preference comes in.

I'm happy about most things except not having enough money.

I am in the process (8 years and counting!) of training myself to have less and be happier with it.

When I got divorced from my first marriage I gave up a home I really loved, that I could have lived in forever and I'm now somewhere much smaller.

But I am now in a job I really love with all of my being and I work much less so I have an allotment.

Yes, I miss being able to go abroad and have holidays - they are far out of our reach even with what I think is a large household income (about 70k) as dh is a teacher but I may be able to in the future and I'm much happier with my small life - age has taught me that and having fulfilling work and a place in the community.

I work, I garden, I cuddle my cat, my dd, my dh - that's it.

I think I read something once that happiness does increase exponentially with income up to about 50k, but after that, your income can carry on going up and your happiness won't increase along with it. I think it's the same theory someone else has said that if you earn too little to feel comfortable and secure then more money WOULD make you happier, but if you are already financially comfortable, extra money WON'T make you happier. And for what it's worth, I think this is true in my own life.

I think that for me and my partner a combined £20k take-home salary would make life a lot easier. I don't care about luxuries right now; I just want to be able to pay the rent and the bills, and start paying off our debts.

Ask me again in five years, and I suspect my answer will be quite a bit more. ;)

When we first lived together we earned a joint income of £30k, lived in a tiny flat, eating as frugally as possible, never going on holiday or out.
it didn't help that the mortgage was expensive.
plus we were both commuting quite far and petrol costs were high.

5 years later, a joint income of £60k, a larger house but much smaller mortgage and neither of us commute anymore.
We are both happy and although we try to enjoy ourselves and make up for when we couldn't do anything, we still have frugal minds, as we never want to be in te position we were before.
I don't want any more than we currently have. OH is hugely ambitious and wants bigger house, more holidays and nicer cars. It's nice that he has goals, and I am happy if they are achieved or not.

So, for me this is the amount that makes me happy. For OH he would probably say a bit more

For anyone interested in whether lots of money makes you happy, there's a book by Hunter Davies HERE that follows the stories of a number of lottery winners and what they did with the money and how happy they were before the win and after - plus I've got a vague idea that there's a chapter at the end with studies of happiness levels before and after a big win.

The conclusion as I remember it was that money didn't make miserable people happy - most people assessed themselves as about as happy after the lottery win as they had been before.

I think lottery wins are different.
It's not the money that directly caused unhappiness in these people, but indirectly the way it affected their relationships with friends and family for the worse.

My Dad once told me the key to happiness if thinking you are a little bit better off than your neighbours. It doesn't matter if you actually are, as long as you think you are.

Probably a lot of truth in that.

I'm content and we don't have a massive income but we're not at the bottom of the pile. It is impossible to put a financial figure on it.. 40k where I live is a lot of money but it would be peanuts if we lived in sandbanks. It is all relative.

Interestingly, Beaver, there is a story in the book about a family who kept it completely secret.

There are more winners than you imagine who never divulge their win to anyone. I used to work with lottery winners and there were a number of winners who were very very particular that nobody should know - including a couple who continued with their normal jobs, stayed in the same house and told nobody, not even their own children - and an elderly man who insisted that post sent to him be sent with stamps and not franked in case anyone saw he was receiving post from a big law firm and twigged there was something going on!