to think that the news is demonstrating our over-reliance on cars

[Bennifer]

I was watching the news this morning watching the petrol queues, I saw a mum on TV talking about how she needed the car to pick the children up from school. Then there was a story about Nottingham charging people to park at their place of work. As the reporter was talking about this on the streets of Nottingham, there was a stream of traffic behind him, I didn't see a cyclist or a bus.

I just think we've got ourselves into such a pickle over transport policy where so, so many people are dependent on their car to get around, and it's lunacy. I know we all have different circumstances, so I'm not going to judge individuals, but as a society, it just seems crazy. AIBU?

Zippy- good post. It can be done and takes some planning i.e choosing where to live, but you are not mad! I think a mile to school is excellent exercise and probably a lot more than the kids who are driven everywhere get.

Someone asked how the car club works. There are clubs in cities all over the UK - I'm in the City Car Club but there's also ZipCar and I'm sure many others.

You pay a membership fee - for the City Car Club it's £60, and then an hourly fee - from about £5.60, depending on the size of car (from Fiat 500s, Vauxhall Corsa, Ford Fiestas up to Priuses and transporter vans (£8 odd)- plus mileage at 22p per mile. You can also pay an optional £10 a month to reduce your excess to zero.

In return you get the completely free use of a practically new car that's parked close to your house. (I have two within five minutes walk, and about four within 10). The cost includes insurance, cleaning, petrol - and of course you never have to go anywhere near a garage.

When you need a car you book it online or by phone. You use a smartcard when you get to the car to open it... and that's it really.

Because it's charged by the hour it's only really worth using for a few hours at a time. If I go on holiday by car I hire one from a regular car hire firm, where rates are around £15/day (but obviously more hassle to go and get it).

The debate on this has been quite interesting - reading the thread it seems that the commute's the thing that keeps us owning cars, followed by the school run. Online shopping is tremendously freeing - I rarely go to the supermarket anymore.

DH cycles to the station to get train to work.

I have sold my car and cycle to work, once I've walked the dc to school.

I do only work a 10 minute walk away though...

We have DH's car which we share.

Saves lots of money and I can post smugly on this thread

My dd1 and her b/f do not drive, they live in a flat which is a two minute walk from the main town railway station. It is a 30 minute commute to the second city and two minute train journey to the next town or two hours to London.

They both choose to work in the same town that they live.

taxi for late night after a drink and taxi from the supermarket or home delivery.

They walk everywhere else or get a bus.

They don't have to pay 600 pounds a year for insurance and tax, 40 pounds a month for petrol or any HP for an actual car which could easily be 200 a month - so in total around 300 a month. That easily cover the cost of public transport and taxi's

I try to use the train when I can for two journeys of about 25 miles that I do about once a month. The time before last the train was filthy - grime on the windows, musty seats. On Thursday when I did my last journey this way there were three men who really stank - one had really strong smelling feet and was sat next to me and when I moved to avoid him the smell of sweat from a couple of others was very strong. It does put you off using public transport. And don't get me started on feet on seats....

My childminding friend was reprimanded by a fat mother who said that making her fat daughter walk the mile to school was child abuse. Needless to say the fat mother doesn't use my friend anymore as a childminder.

I live opposite a school, where the (mostly fat) mothers park outside my house from 40 minutes before the kids leave, so they can get as close to the school gates as possible. They get their newspapers out or go and sit in each other's cars and gossip. They all live locally, within 25 minutes walk. Some of them have dogs ffs why don't they walk them to school? Then they drive the dog to the local field, let it run about a bit then drive it home again.

I have a car that I do use occasionally when I have no option. The kids get the bus to school, and I walk everywhere I can. I got myself one of those old lady pull along shopping trolleys as carrying the veg home from the market was too heavy in bags.

Howies have a T shirt that says (picture of car) "burns money makes you fat"
(picture of bike) "burns fat saves you money. " My car is quite cheap to run ( Fiat Panda, comp insurance only £143 this year). Having to go out from work to meetings from a rural area and travel 7 miles to work with extreme gradients isn't something I could do any other way. There is no public transport for my usual route, so the problems filthy conditions don't apply to short journeys. Everyone travels longish distances into my place of work because the little village where our workplace is has houses that are too expensive for any of us to afford.

Sending your children to the local school helps enormously too. There's an awful lot of snobbery involved in driving your children to a school in a posh(er) area where you can't afford to live. I love the fact that we walk to primary school(down the road). When it snows, we just put on our wellies. The older ones walk the 1.5miles to secondary school - which is useful exercise for them. I love the fact that I don't actually need a car. We live minutes from a range of shops and can also order on line. DH commutes to work in central London by train(50 mile journey - takes 50 mins - 1 hr).

I seem to know a lot of people who planned their lives so that they will be dependent on their car. And then complain when that dependence creates problems for them. That's what gets me.

I know quite a few people who planned not to use cars, and then the situation changes - job moves, kids change interests/schools. And then complain when that non-dependence creates problems for them. That's what gets me :)

Whatme, Of course, I'm biased, but I think this thread is demonstrating quite the opposite, and that statistics demonstrate it. And how can walking be more expensive than driving? And cycling more time consuming than driving? A lot of the time, it really isn't. I'm sorry to say this, but I think you're a little blinkered.

No, I think the majority of people on this thread are testifying as to how it would be impossible to exsit without a car.

I think you are being blinkered fwiw, I've lived all over the UK in everything from tiny rural villages to inner London. In general, public transport works well if you are doing the standard commutes in large metropolitan areas, outside of that its very poor and (if you are using trains) can get very expensive.

And what I never see the people who argue against cars factor into the equation is the money value of time. IMO the public transport/walking/cycling option is only realistic for people who don't work and so have "free" time on their hands, or live very close to work/an easy commute.

GobHoblin I don't quite understand.

You asked:
"This isnt defensive its a genuine question.
I live in a medium sized town.
Tell me how i can start work at 7am (bike not a prob)
DH Get DD to breakfast club at 8am and be at work to start at 8.30 3 1/2 miles away."

And I said, if he is there at 8am to drop DD off, then it will not take more than 20 minutes to cycle 3 1/2 miles. If it does, something is wrong. Could you please clarify? Does he actually have to be at work at 8:15am or something?

I think for every 'The only route to work is 20 miles along a motorway' post there's someone else who's keeping schtum, those 40% of car journeys of under 3 miles must all be someone else.....

We cycled yesterday, drop DS at activity, cycle to park with DD, cycle back to pick up DS, cycle home past another playground, stop and play, cycle home, stop in the supermarket.

Just wouldn't have happened if we had driven.

"The problem is that the car is just so bloody convenient!"

I don't see the attraction in convenient. The long way round is more scenic, interesting and fun.

We are much fitter, healthier, happier, richer and more free without a car. I never want to own a car, I love cycling everywhere.

I think the news is also demonstrating that far too many people believe what they are told.

I think for every 'The only route to work is 20 miles along a motorway' post there's someone else who's keeping schtum, those 40% of car journeys of under 3 miles must all be someone else.....

I suspect a very, very large number are non working parents doing school run trips.

In what way is 'I get my groceries delivered' a defence against car use or non-use? The blinking vehicles use fuel don't they? It still involves someone driving. That's like hiring a hitman and then saying 'not me guv'.

I am torn on this - on the one hand I can see that it's desirable to have less cars on the road (knocking me off my bike) and I feel safer driving the children than dragging them in a bike trailer.

I'm more worried actually about food shortages resulting from fuel strikes than anything because we are so reliant on road transport - and frankly I don't think the salad and toms growing in the garden are going to cut it for Sunday lunch (but if we threw in the cat..... ).

Overall I think we're at a junction where we could go either way. People ought to be working more from home, but if you think about a lot of those jobs they are about creating opportunities to drive more - people sell stuff, and it gets delivered by....cars, vans, lorries. Apart from intellectual industries it's about the consumption of goods which by and large arrive via petrochemical means.

Our lights stay on because of the same fuel. So perhaps we shouldn't use it so freely.

Whatme - I think you may well be right. Or even working parents doing school runs.

Husband says he gets to work much quicker when the schools are on holiday.

My boys go to the village school, they walk. But....the number of cars arriving is substantial, and they all live within the catchment which isn't huge.

What would convince me to use the car less would be public transport that would actually get me to work and back when I need to get there, and did not cost more than running a car.

I send my youngest to the local school. It's 4 miles away. Please be aware some of us are VERY rural.

Dd1 had to catch bus to her school (10 miles away) at beginning of 6th form. I had to drive her the 1.5m to bus stop then her return journey was £7.90 per day! It's cheaper for her to drive. Plus local buses only run X3 pd (from 1.5 miles away down a road with no footpath or lighting). Hugely inconvenient.

YABU

What has been demonstrated is the criminal irresponsibility of the government in allowing the reduction to almost no reserve capacity in the UK.

We have only days of transport fuel, gas, oil, and foodstocks.

Roads, hospitals, railways all run at near peak capacity and it only takes a minor event - as clearly demonstrated by the events of the last few days to, again confirm that Britian has almost no resilience.

Heaven help us if there is any real crisis.

You don't have to use bike trailers.

There are other options: www.practicalcycles.com/

we are definitely giulty of owning a largish (3 dc) car we don't need 300+ days of the year.
The dc walk to school (about a mile, pleasant walk). I don't think DH has taken them in car ever (not worth it, impossible to park unless you get there 15 mins early, so pointless).
I do 1 enormous monthly grocery shop, which is delivered, and drive weekly for fresh stuff. I could get that delivered too, presumably, for the cost of the car.
I take bus/tube to work.
We use the car for camping trips and visiting relatives, so presumably we could run a little car, buy a trailer and be considerably greener.
Makes me think.

Well, I've admitted that I'll drive the 1 mile to Tescos. I'll drive the 2 miles to church this morning with DS (we could walk, but that would mean going ot the later service and I like having the rest of the sunday morning free). I'll drive to friend's houses who live just 3-4 miles away, but in villages that aren't served by direct bus routes. (and quite frankly, I've paid for the car already, why would I spend the best part of an hour getting somewhere, paying about £4 for the privilage when I could just jump in the car on the drive and be there in 10 mins and it cost me significantly less? I think my car works out about 20 - 25p per mile in petrol, I have to tax and insure it anyway).

Again, I could cope without a car, I get the train then the tube to work 3 days a week, on the rest of the time I could just get other people to drive my food to me (and I do tend to do regular orders from Ocado anyway out of laziness), and only go places I could walk from my house/always invite friends to my house or arrange to meet them in locations I could walk too. I did cope for years without a car, but it's easier and I can afford it. I like having the option to drive if I want, petrol prices alone aren't going to put me off, the biggest costs to driving are flat costs.

Our local school is over a mile away and we woud not have to time to walk there and back again, and still get to work on time.

For me, public transport woud be a nightmare for work. Two buses going in and out of town. Would take at least 40-60 min, my car journey is 10 min. But too far to walk.

Dh could go on bus but he has free parking and petrol, do bus is dearer. Plus he goes to see clients around the city and further afield. He charges for travel time. This would cost clients far more and he'd not be able to see all, inc vulnerable ones as a result.