to think that the news is demonstrating our over-reliance on cars

[Bennifer]

I was watching the news this morning watching the petrol queues, I saw a mum on TV talking about how she needed the car to pick the children up from school. Then there was a story about Nottingham charging people to park at their place of work. As the reporter was talking about this on the streets of Nottingham, there was a stream of traffic behind him, I didn't see a cyclist or a bus.

I just think we've got ourselves into such a pickle over transport policy where so, so many people are dependent on their car to get around, and it's lunacy. I know we all have different circumstances, so I'm not going to judge individuals, but as a society, it just seems crazy. AIBU?

I don't understand why the car is so convenient when you consider how bloody expensive it is to learn to drive, buy and run one. Think of all the work you have to do to pay for one.

we have chosen to live in fairly central suburb of a city. we can, and do, walk to school (on my non work days), nursery, local shops (supermarket, greengrocers etc). if it wasn't for work, i probably wouldn't run a car at all.

but DH and I both work. i have an essential car user post, so have to drive to work, even though it's only about 4miles away. DH was recently transferred from an office to which he could cycle, to one much further down the motorway, so we ended up getting a second car. for both of us, not running a car=not going to work, so the maths works out.

the problem then arises that you've paid for your car, taxed it, serviced it, MOT'ed it. Those costs are incurred anyway, regardless of mileage. It costs £4 each to get the bus to the swimming pool and back, whereas the petrol to cover the journey is about two quid for everyone, with no parking fees. so you find yourself taking the car for reasons of economy.

I don't understand why the car is so convenient when you consider how bloody expensive it is to learn to drive, buy and run one. Think of all the work you have to do to pay for one.

Compared to the cost of public transport if you do much more than a bus ride to the local shops, it costs in quite well in fact.

When you are looking at about £10 a day commuting cost its evens, and weekend use is then a free bonus.

TOPTRAMP, my small, cheap, efficient car costs less than £50 a week to buy, insure and run (over the 8 or 9 years I will have it), no road tax, live in a cheap to insure area (have a big no claims bonus too). About £8 a day, including parking which is cheap or free here. The bus costs £3.60 each way into town, a taxi costs about £12 from our house to town.

That is very cheap and convenient for all the transportation needs of 1 adult, 3 teens and a baby, It's very, very convenient because the car goes where we want it to go, when we want to go there. Even buying monthly bus passes for each member of the family would cost us £50 a month more than running the car, and we would still have to shell out for taxis in addition. But more than the money, it is the TIME, I don't have time to spend 2 hrs getting a bus, then another bus to somewhere I can drive to in 20mins.

Public transport MAY be cheap if you are talking about 1 person using a bus, compared with 1 person using a car...... when you are talking about several people using the same car, it really can work out cheaper (not if you have a huge, expensive car obviously).

But Bennifer, short distances are not the same everywhere.

My local amenities (it calls itself a town; it's a road with shops on) are 2 miles away. I can walk there through the housing estates.

The toddler group I go to is 3 miles away. I can't walk there because it's 3 miles along a very busy, 50mph country lane and there are no pavements.

But more than the money, it is the TIME, I don't have time to spend 2 hrs getting a bus, then another bus to somewhere I can drive to in 20mins.

Good point - time is not free if you are working, it has a cost and that is never factored into these comparisons

We have no bus service here and the nearest route is many miles away so we are completely stuck without a car.

Unfortunately, our entire business is reliant on diesel plus costs of transporting our stock to market have risen since they shut the local market and opened a new one in Stirling which is a good distance away.

We are also having to up security a lot as there has been a rise in rural fuel theft. Many farmers have filled diesel tanks for the ploughing then gangs have been emptying the big fuel tanks when farmers are in the fields working.

Nice to see we have not lost our sense of humour in our ailing Country.

I agree with everything said. The system is all wrong nowadays. I now ride a motorbike again after 20yrs which saves time & money, but has major draw backs like safety & climate. However cars are brilliant at transporting large items & passengers. The system needs to change, life is geared around having a car from socialising so shopping. They shouls nver have privatised England. ; )

Darn those typo,s

Can I join the @first are cunts' club please. cos they are

Cars have allowed people to live somewhere affordable. I couldn't afford a house in the city where I work. PT is rubbish and hugely expensive, and a journey that by car takes 20 mins would take over an hour, and then means a 20 min walk to work from there.

We do rely on cars too much but that is largely because society has made them essential; stupidly expensive houses, under investament in PT and out of town shopping

We've lived without a car for several years now. Works very well for us currently and we save plenty of cash. We have the odd hire car when it's required. Bus fares are very good here, £90 for a 90 day pass. I reckon I travel about 700 miles for that so consider myself lucky. We're 20 miles from the nearest city too.

I'd say it's impossible to have a one size fits all solution. Some people need cars to make their lives function sensibly and there's nothing wrong with that at all. Society has geared itself towards private transport for the last 5 decades and we will see over the next 5 if that trend is sustainable or irrevocable.

"I don't understand why the car is so convenient when you consider how bloody expensive it is to learn to drive, buy and run one. Think of all the work you have to do to pay for one."

our journey to work: drop children at parents, drop me at my work ...dh goes on to his... total time: 30mins.

petrol cost: £3.50 + overheads on our car....

comparable journey by bus : 20 mins walk to bus stop, 5mins ride to parents house nearest stop + five mins walk..with kids (£1.70 each for adults), me 15 mins by bus to work (£2.70) him 20mins plus 5 walking £3.00
time here presuming some waiting time for each bus.

me: 45 mins to work him 55 mins...
lot of hassle due to complex journey.
cost: £9.10

i learned to drive 17 years ago. i have a job anyway (to pay for our house, not our car). car in this instance - much simpler.

I think this varies hugely depending on where you live. I've lived all over the country and in cities, large towns, small towns, and villages. I managed with public transport/bicycle for quite a lot of it, but found in some of the smaller towns a car was essential - not just easier but actually essential. Yes, if I'd given up my employment for a NMW type job in the local shops/businesses, I wouldn't have needed a car, but then I wouldn't have been able to live there as I wouldn't have been able to afford the housing costs.

This is the major problem. As soon as you are out of the city or larger town, where there is decent public transport on offer, you are talking much lower paid jobs in general. The only people who will end up living in the country are the independently wealthy because no one else will be able to afford it. In fact, this is already happening. What happens when the cities are all full to bursting point?

I hate that the transport policy seems to reflect the London reality. The reality in my area is that you can only get to the nearest town and often have to repeat that from town to town to get to your nearest destination, meaning that what is a 20 minute journey in a car can take over an hour and a half on the bus. There are only buses every hour and they stop quite early and do not exist at all on Sundays (no good for shift workers then). And although I live in a semi-rural area it's not out in the sticks.

We can't turn back the clock. No one is willing to go back to earning less and living more locally however utopian it may seem because that's not how our global economy works anymore. If we all move closer to our work to avoid reliance on cars then property prices will become even more ridiculous than they currently are.

IMO the solution is to accept that the car is here to stay and simply find a clean way of running them. In an age where phone batteries are now the thickness of paper I can't help feeling that this should have been possible some time ago were it not for the vested interest the powerful have in keeping us reliant on oil.

Well, my name is GreenOlives and I am over-reliant on my car! And I don't feel guilty about it at all!
Both DH and I work shifts so public transport is not option at the times we leave and/or return from work so we need to be a 2 car family. On my days off I could choose to do my shopping at the local (overpriced) Co-op which I could walk to and lug all the shopping home but instead I choose to drive my son to pre-school (only a mile away) then continue on to my nearest Tesco (further 4 miles) As others have said once cars are a necessity for one element then the running costs etc are already being paid so why would I choose to use PT when I have a more convenient method sitting on my drive? The exercise element of Shank's pony is not relevant for me as on work days I am on my feet and constantly moving for 12.5 hrs, I'm glad of a rest on my days off! That's not to say I never walk anywhere, DS and I love walking to the local park for a play and often walk to pre-school when I don't have other errands to run. I just think the over reliance on cars is natural evolution due to the technology we have now, it's no different to all the other electrical equipment/white goods that we could live without or use less, but why make life harder than it needs to be I say!

We are a two car family. DH and I work 25 miles apart, and we live in the middle, so have a 12/13 mile journey each.

DH cycles to work when work permits (normally once or twice a week when he is able to get in late - he drops DD off in breakfast club first, so can't leave any earlier).

I drive to work, dropping DS off at nursery. I work pt which makes car sharing difficult (as does needing to drop DS off). I then race home ready to pick DD up from school. Military precision is needed!

The village we live in is 5 miles from nearest small town/village. There is one bus an hour (if that). It would take more than 2 hours for either DH or I to get to work by public transport, due to the number of changes.

So IMO it would be impossible for me to manage with public transport. DH could ride his bike everyday if we could sort something out with breakfast club, although 125 miles a week on the bike may take its toll!!!

In families where both adults work, and where careers and finances necessitate taking jobs further afield, and when cities are too expensive for people to buy houses, then this is always going to be an issue. The only thing that would stop me using my car would be if I gave up work.

meh, we have two cars in this house and both are used daily. I could get about fine without mine but it would be an inconvenience. DP needs his for work and would be unemployed without it. So what of it. I don't get the big issue over having a car or not. If you dont want to drive and are happy using pt then good for you. Im happy jumping in my car.

'IMO the solution is to accept that the car is here to stay and simply find a clean way of running them.'

Definately. Cos I'm sick of breathing in the fumes. And ways of slowing them down in cities. Some of our routes have become 20mph and cars still speed down them only to screech to a halt at the next red light or traffic jam.

I always thought that the technology to have cars run off water was available but kept hidden away due to all the revenue the government make off petrol/diesel etc.

My problem is that although I bought a house a walkable distance from my work and the dc nursery, the fumes we inhale on the way there and back worry me greatly.

I do posess a driving license but hate driving.

We have such vitriol for smokers but driving is our human right.

I think they should raise the driving age to 25 so that everyone has to live an adult life non-reliant on cars for a short while. Then they would discover that they could do it. I have often had adults ask me 'how' to take a bus.

I often get the bus with the kids even though I have a car and part of the reason I do that is so they don't think using public transport is strange or scary.

I also think that public transport is expensive if you have a car on the drive at home.

I always thought that the technology to have cars run off water was available but kept hidden away due to all the revenue the government make off petrol/diesel etc

Err, no. That's the daftest I've heard in a

It is all controlled by the shape shifting reptilians of the illuminati and the Vatican, who have worked out how to power vehicles on babycham.

I didn't pass my test until I was 25 (see earlier post).

Everything took a hell of a lot longer when I was a non-driver and I was constantly having to get lifts, therefore feeling beholden to people.

I actually think that once I'd finally, finally, finally passed my test, I became worse than someone who was used to driving, just because I was so glad that I wasn't reliant on somebody else and didn't have to spend my time trying to figure out how long it was going to take me to get from a to b (via f, k and fucking n).

pink - they've made insurance for boys so expensive now that they can't afford to drive till early 20's anyway. or mine can't

Looking at the original post then yes probably my household are overly dependent on our cars.

Both dh and I have jobs that within our role, to quote our job descriptions, are necessary to go to designations that are not accessible by public transport. We live in a semi rural area - nearest train station is 5 miles away and the last 3 times we went out to go into town and thought we would get the bus it didnt turn up and we had to beg a lift.

But we have used our cars (i say our cars but they are both company cars so technically we dont own either) to access things like the village shop,the supermarket etc, that actually we could have walked to but chose not to out of time contraints and just general laziness.