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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think I'm not being narrow minded?

56 replies

Birdylade · 29/03/2012 10:51

A few days ago a friend and I were talking and I said that burkhas make me feel uneasy because I can't see the persons face, in fact I find them quite frightening. This is not anything to do with the religious connotations and I don't feel they should be banned by the way. I feel exactly the same about balaclavas and when people wear scarves around there mouths with their hoods up and even when people have big sunglasses on and I can't see their eyes.

My friend told me I was narrow minded which upset me as I don't think I am at all, I just feel uneasy when I can't see someones face. Aibu?

OP posts:
OldGreyWiffleTest · 29/03/2012 10:54

It is basic human survival instinct to 'scan' someone's face. So YANBU.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 29/03/2012 10:54

YANBU. In a culture where masks and face-coverings are traditionally worn by people who are up to no good, it's not narrow-minded to say it makes you feel uncomfortable.

SooticaTheWitchesCat · 29/03/2012 10:55

Burkhas make me feel a bit uneasy too. You aren't being narrow minded, I think it is a normal reaction to be unsure about someone when you can't see their face

nickelhasababy · 29/03/2012 10:56

yanbu.
if you feel afraid when you can't see someone's face, that's hardly bring narrowminded!

as you say, you feel the same for all face coverings.

DinahMoHum · 29/03/2012 10:56

Are you generally a nervous person?

I cant say they make me uneasy, but theyre not really very welcoming.
Probably the least of my problems with the burqua though

boschy · 29/03/2012 10:57

I tend to think YANBU - being able to see someone's face is an important element of communication because facial expression alters actual words.

I dont think I would be 'frightened' per se by not being able to see someone's face but I would be uncomfortable because it would make the communication less complete somehow and possibly more difficult. (and I've got a complete phobia about masks, wonder if that's related? never thought about it before)

ragged · 29/03/2012 11:05

They only make me feel uneasy if I actually have a reason to talk to someone, and more than just an "Excuse me" comment trying to squeeze buggy thru a narrow space. But if I need to talk to someone at length at the bank counter or want to ask my neighbour if she knows who is moving into number 8, then I would like to see their face when they reply.

NoMoreInsomnia12 · 29/03/2012 11:05

I can see how covering your body and hair could feel liberating. In fact it could make practical sense in a very hot country - being covered in loose flowing fabric certainly would keep you cooler and covering your head stops you from getting sunstroke. It can also be practical in cooler countries as you can put lots of layers on underneath and use heavier fabric. Also I think there is a certain liberation in not being a slave to fashion, or having to think about what to wear each day. Or indeed, worry about whether one's stomach is flat enough to wear a particular dress or jeans.

But - I think covering your entire face and only having holes to peep through or a mesh is so dehumanising, and to me rather sinister to see. There should also be situations where people have to show their face such as at passport control, in a bank, in court, for teaching etc where the full on face coverage is not allowed. I'm for religious tolerance but not where it means breaking the law or is totally impractical.

Itsjustafleshwound · 29/03/2012 11:08

Does she understand what narrow-minded means? It is very different to being uneasy ....

Original poster
Birdylade · 29/03/2012 11:13

I think she likes to think of herself as very open minded and says because she lived in London for a few years amongst lots of women in burkhas that she thinks they are beautiful... I on the other hand am apparently narrow minded as they make me feel uneasy.

OP posts:
culturemulcher · 29/03/2012 11:16

YANBU

What whiffle said.

I also think as a society each generation works out what an unacceptable level of undress is - bikinis great for the beach, but not for parents' evening, etc.

Now we need to figure out what an unacceptable level of over-dress is.

Kayano · 29/03/2012 11:16

I hate seeing teenagers with hoods up and scarves over their mouth and nose

Original poster
Birdylade · 29/03/2012 11:17

I actually grew up in London and remember being terrified as a child by burkhas and balaclavas!

OP posts:
TheCraicDealer · 29/03/2012 11:20

Well, there's being "open-minded" and then being "so anxious to be pc can't form your own opinions". It's human nature to read other people's faces, it doesn't make you provincial or narrow-minded just because it makes you uneasy being unable to read someone's facial expressions

CogitoErgoSometimes · 29/03/2012 11:20

She thinks you're unworldly and ignorant, unlike her cosmopolitan, liberal-thinking self. Be wary of such judgemental types.... they are a PITA

CrockoDuck · 29/03/2012 11:23

I agree with you completely. They make me nervous too - plus I am affronted that in this day and age there still exists a religion that demands that women are covered up (even though many of them are quite willing).

Having said that, I don't think they should be banned either. I do not wish to live in a country where anyone is told what they may or may not wear. That's a horribly slippery slope.

But yes, in practical terms, having to speak to a bed sheet rather than a face makes me extremely uncomfortable.

DizzyKipper · 29/03/2012 11:27

Your friend sounds like the narrow minded one to me, she's only able to interpret your feelings in the narrow scope of her own narrow viewpoint rather than realising that these feelings may be down to something else entirely. YANBU, she is.

LadyClariceCannockMonty · 29/03/2012 11:29

Personally I don't have the same problem; scarves, burkhas, bike helmets etc don't bother me in the slightest.

I think your friend is being a bit harsh though, or maybe misunderstanding your meaning or the meaning of the word 'narrow-minded', as it seems pretty obvious that you're NOT being narrow-minded but just have a bit of a thing about not being able to see people's faces, which is just one of those things and fair enough really.

CailinDana · 29/03/2012 11:31

My DH is working on a project with a couple of women who wear burkhas and he's finding it quite hard because it's nearly impossible to read their reactions to things and sometimes it's difficult to hear them. I felt an actual surge of fear when I was in Malaysia and a big group of women all in burkhas came towards me. My mind instantly signalled something was wrong, although I felt fine once my sense kicked in again and saw there was nothing to fear.

People are naturally drawn to faces, right from birth. In fact, the research I used to do was partially around the fact that even in the most brain damaged child the ability to recognise faces can be normal. It is governed by a separate and distinct part of the brain and people can even have a condition called prosopagnosia where they can't recognise faces but have no other problems. It is completely normal to be unnerved by not being able to see a person's face, it's an integral part of your survival instinct.

After all that longwinded guff, what I want to say is YANBU.

Original poster
Birdylade · 29/03/2012 11:48

I'm glad the general consensus is that I'm not a narrow minded bigot. I can't help but still feel quite upset she called me narrow minded, it really ruffled my feathers!

OP posts:
ramblinrose · 29/03/2012 12:37

Of course you are not a narrow minded bigot OP.

If she is your friend, she should know you better than that.
When you told her that burkhas make you feel anxious, she should take that at face value and not look for a hidden meaning.

YANBU

sausagesandmarmelade · 29/03/2012 12:41

I've never felt uneasy by the sight of a Burkha...or threatened.

If people choose to clothe themselves in that way then that's up to them...

However, if they were forced to dress like that and made to conform to something that they weren't convicted of...then I would feel sorry for them.

Floggingmolly · 29/03/2012 12:47

You are not being unreasonable in the slightest. Your friend on the other hand is being a bit of an idiot with her "burkhas are beautiful" comment. Hmm There is nothing beautiful about a burkha.

SaraBellumHertz · 29/03/2012 12:53

If that is the way you feel then it is not narrow minded but I do find it a rather curious reaction and probably an unreasonable one. It might be worth working on ideas surrounding why you are so anxious.

I also struggle with the assertion that it is difficult to understand someone who is covered for lack of expression. We, as a generation, conduct so much business over distance (phone email etc) that if you cannot clearly understand and interpret issues without observing facial expressions then you ought to, in my opinion, consider the problem yours.

I do most of my business in the gulf states and also the Middle East generally and I can honestly say that I have not found it difficult to understand someone by virtue of a veil.

lesley33 · 29/03/2012 12:57

But the reality is over phone and email it is much easier to misinterpret things and I know of misunderstandings that have happened that probably wouldn't have happened face-to-face.