To think I'm not being narrow minded?

[Birdylade]

A few days ago a friend and I were talking and I said that burkhas make me feel uneasy because I can't see the persons face, in fact I find them quite frightening. This is not anything to do with the religious connotations and I don't feel they should be banned by the way. I feel exactly the same about balaclavas and when people wear scarves around there mouths with their hoods up and even when people have big sunglasses on and I can't see their eyes.

My friend told me I was narrow minded which upset me as I don't think I am at all, I just feel uneasy when I can't see someones face. Aibu?

I don't mind burkhas - I have great difficulty talking to a person wearing sunglasses though!

No, it's not narrow minded, it's cultural, and just as it's a part of someone's culture to cover some bit of themselves, it might be part of someone's culture to leave that bit uncovered and find it a touch disconcerting.

Flogging - goo point, actually, they're supposed to stop men from thinking about the woman's body, right?
So, in theory, they're the opposite of beautiful.

The trouble with a burkha is that cuts people off from normal everyday friendliness. The muslim mothers at the school gate who wear a long dress and something to cover their hair are recognisable and I am on smiling and nodding terms with some of them. This isn't possible with burkha wearers.

Incidentally a burka generally refers to a full body cloak that hangs from the crown of the head down and has mesh covered eye holes, meaning even the eyes are obscured. You don't generally see them in the UK as abayas (long black dresses that hang from the shoulders) tend to be more popular combined with a sheilla (head scarf) and sometime a niqab (half veil) or full veil.

I agree with you conference. DH can't say hi to his colleagues who wear burkhas if he sees them on campus because he doesn't recognise them. They would have to say hi and even then it would take him a while to figure out which one it was.

Lesley33 yes if you are lazy in your communication and lack clarity.

Sara - I think we are probably all guilty of that particularly when rushing about with DCs. We are after all not just talking about a work situation here.
So a hurried rushing by someone saying Hi, sorry I am in a rush is much more gentle imo if accompanied by a full smile.

But honestly if someone offers a "full smile" you see it in their eyes.

Only if you are very very close to them

I dont think YABU per se, it depends, if you live in an area where you are surrounded by women in burkas, i would have thought , as serabellumhertz pointed out that it wouldnt be an issue, as you would be dealing with these women on a daily basis, and would be less concerned. If you dont, then its not really an issue for you. Dont think narrow minded at all, i think ignorance (as in not understanding rather than the insulting type of ignorance) plays a part (i am ignorant of many things) and if you are worried, maybe try and find out more about it?

The thing is in a proper burkha you can't see the wearer's eyes.

Good point about the sunglasses there, i think id rather see someones eyes than their mouths actually

Obviously you should have said, "Did you mean to be so rude?" :-)

Ok originally I was talking about business as a couple of people referred to their husbands having problems with colleagues and that just didn't make sense to me.

If we are talking in a social setting why on earth would anyone assume that a friend they were hurriedly rushing by was being anything other than friendly . Honestly in that scenario I am genuinely perplexed as to why anyone would need the addition of actually viewing a smile in order to understand a friends mood when saying a cheery hello.

tbh op i do think it is a bit narrow minded! because ur thinking of niqab & balaclavas in the same way as a threatening/scary thing when really its different cos of the different intention behind it. ur entitled to ur own view if you find it uneasy but it is narrow minded, i dont see how anyone can really claim otherwise..

i used to wear it, for a couple of years, but i have downgraded back to just the abayah & hijab now, (long dress + scarf) it is true about the friendliness thing, ppl just dont interact with u & feel suspicious, or even taking it further i had people spit on me & shouting , telling their children 'look its a monster' etc + the amount of ppl staring which at the time i never really noticed it was just once i took the niqab off i suddenly realised hey noone is staring at me anymore!! i was the same amount of friendly to others when i covered my face, that i am now so it was just their perceptions & attitude which led to them reacting like that - which is narrow minded, imo..

its not hard to recognise ppl in niqaab, and u can kind of see smile thru the eyes, also if u just talk u can easily see the friendliness there is nothing 2 b scared of or anxious about niqab wearing women, underneath all that they r exactly the same as anyone else. even if u see a niqaabi out with her young kids, taking them in the park or shops & interacting with them out & about, just like urself - a normal mum... would u really still find her frightening??

I don't have any interest in going to disneyland because the idea of being approached by somone unrecognisable in a sully outfit gives me the same sense of unease.

silly though sully from monsters inc would be an example

They don't bother me either band I am always a bit when people say a man could be wearing one as you can always tell it's a woman! but then again i often wonder whether people who make comments like that have ever lived anywhere multi cultural

It's not at all odd to find it unsettling that you can't see someone's face. As others have said, from when we are tiny babies we look to people's facial expressions to give us information/feedback.

I second what Cogito says. I have a friend like this who lived in London for a while and thought she was oh so wordly wise and that I was dreadfully parocial. She was a PITA too.

I wouldn't say that I felt uneasy about them until this weird thing happened about two years ago in Clarks.

I was waiting to get DS measured and he started playing with the child (about 4) of a Muslim lady in a burkha (only eyes visible) DS brought the child over to me to say hi and I said "Hi, are you having some new shoes?" He said yes he was etc etc. I made eye contact with the mum and smiled at her, obviously I couldn't tell what her reaction was. DS carried on playing with her DS at the lego box and I passed some inane comment to her about how busy the shop was and she got up, grabbed her son by the hand and led him away from my DS. I have no idea what we did but if I'd been able to read her body language earlier I might have known that she wasn't happy about her son playing with mine. It really threw me.

i dont like talking to people wearing sunglasses, because i cant see thier eyes. I've never spoken to anyone wearing a bhurka or a balaclava but would imagine that i wouldnt like it.

I have spoken to people whist wearing a hemet and it does interfere with communication.

helmets are distracting

Just think how much we can read about people's mood in their faces without ever having to speak a word, or how an understanding smile from a stranger when you're struggling with a toddler can make you feel better. And think of all the people you 'know' - nodding acquaintances. Covering your face puts up a wall between you and other people.

Not being able to read a face is disconcerting. YANBU.