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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to think that the anti-date rape ad is useless?

37 replies

Bogeyface · 26/03/2012 23:15

I am all for making it clear to young people what is rape, but this ad doesnt really do that.

For me it was the bit at the end that says "Sex with someone who doesnt want it is rape" or something like that. The trouble with that is that it is implying a judgment decision on the part of a young and probably drunk and definitely horny teenage boy. In their minds they can convince themselves that she wants to really because she isnt fighting back for example. I had a bf try to have sex with me when I didnt want to and it was only when I smacked on the side of the head and pushed him off that he realised that I meant it when i said I didnt want to. He was genuinely non-plussed and said he thought I was just messing about and that I would have got into it Hmm

what was wrong with the old "NO MEANS NO" message? there is no ambiguity there, and the girl wont be left thinking if she led him on. She said no so he should have stopped.

Surely getting that message into the heads of teenagers would work better?

And why isnt there an ad encouraging young women to report sexual assault? The younger you are the less likely you are to report an attack, and that needs addressing too.

OP posts:
NarkedPuffin · 26/03/2012 23:19

Disagree completely.

This is a much better message to give.

'No means no' allows people to believe that if the woman isn't shouting no or fighting back, it's somehow not rape.

This is much more 'yes means yes' - if the other person isn't 'into it' ie actively participating it is rape.

Hoebag · 26/03/2012 23:20

Which advert is this?

not bagging on you OP but rape threads are done to death on here.

just ends in same old, same old bunfights.

tethersend · 26/03/2012 23:23

Agree with NarkedPuffin; plus, I think this advert, although it has its weaknesses, is a step forward as it targets boys, not girls.

The responsibility is being put on boys not to rape, rather than on girls not to 'put themselves in danger'. This is progress.

JaneDoeDoeJaneJaneDoe · 26/03/2012 23:24

YABU. Not saying no doesnt mean you havent been rape, insisting a rape victim needs to say no, is perpetuating the myths.

Original poster
Bogeyface · 26/03/2012 23:30

I see what you are all saying, but in my mind the message isn't strong enough.

That's what I was trying and failing to say!

What about an ad campaign to girls to report assault and putting over the message that they're not at fault and shouldn't be ashamed or frightened? I think that should be running at the same time.

OP posts:
HalfPastWine · 26/03/2012 23:34

YABU, I think it's a very good advert.

Just a shame that it requires an advert to tell some men that no means no.

On this subject, I was disgusted to see in Emmerdale on two occasions last week that both Nicola's father and husband Jimmy both made reference to 'getting her drunk' so that Jimmy could sleep with her. I thought it gave out the wrong message. They could have phrased it better.

JaneDoeDoeJaneJaneDoe · 26/03/2012 23:37

bogey before they encourage people to report they better sort out the system so it doesnt take a year or more to get a rapist to court!

FondleWithCare · 26/03/2012 23:43

I think it's a good advert and, despite being aimed primarily at boys, it does also say to girls that they have been raped if they didn't want it. A friend of mine when she was younger felt forced into having sex with somebody after repeatedly saying no, she gave in because he refused to let her out of his car (he was a friend of her boyfriend) until she agreed. Girls need to know that it isn't ok.

I read about this on another forum, a woman said it was too graphic and shouldn't be shown to under 18's, defeats the point somewhat really.

runningforthebusinheels · 26/03/2012 23:47

What this advert does is get to the very crux of the matter - The Rapist.

I think it's a good ad, it's putting the onus on the boy not to rape, not on the girl to say NO. Yes means yes is the message we want to send out.

I also liked the 'Don't be that guy, Don't rape her' ads - but I'm not sure they were ever put out in the UK.

McFluffster · 26/03/2012 23:53

Just glad to see the onus being placed on the rapist for a change tbh instead of the drunk/walkingalonelateatnight/shortskirtwearing victim.

NoOnesGoingToEatYourEyes · 26/03/2012 23:56

I think the ad is a good one. I agree with Runningfor, it puts the onus on the rapist to take responsibility for his actions and I think it makes it clear that it's not a bit of fun, it's not her playing hard to get, it's not her changing her mind, it's him, raping her.

I've posted this link before, it has all the adverts (I think) including one from the POV of the girl who is raped in the other advert.

EllenParsons · 27/03/2012 00:14

I haven't actually seen the ad (I normally just fast forward) but I saw my cousin slagging it off on facebook, then one of his mates posted a rape joke underneath it Shock So some people probably won't take it seriously anyway :( Hopefully it will at least make some people think...

topshelfrita · 27/03/2012 00:16

I think it's quite a powerful ad, it's hard to watch anyway. So it might have some impact.

Original poster
Bogeyface · 27/03/2012 00:37

OK I stand corrected.

I suppose that ones own experiences affect ones view. I was raped by an ex, several times over several years. I know for a fact that he wouldnt consider it rape, but I did eventually. I say eventually because I didnt equate sex in a relationship as rape even if I said no and didnt want it, its what you do when you are with someone and sometimes you just have to lie back and think of England, right? Took me a long time (and counselling) to realise that I was raped and that it wasnt me being frigid or bitchy that made me feel abused and degraded (as he said), it was because I had been raped. This ad wouldnt have made a blind bit of difference to him because in his mind it wasnt rape therefore he wasnt a rapist, and he wouldnt have seen me not wanting to if he was the guy on the other side of the window. But he was never violent or abusive in any other way, just never took no for an answer when he was "in the zone" as it where, and to some men that isnt rape at all, just "getting her in the mood".

Maybe that makes me not well placed to judge it, or better placed to judge it. Not sure.

OP posts:
Original poster
Bogeyface · 27/03/2012 00:39

Jane, I would agree except that when they get to court there rarely end in conviction anyway, so lets start with that......

I didnt think this thread through did I? Was a knee jerk reaction really, should probably bugger off.

sorry

OP posts:
JaneDoeDoeJaneJaneDoe · 27/03/2012 00:43

Bogey, the conviction rate in court is circ 60%, its not brilliant.

I am so sorry for your experiences - we are all coloured by our own xxxx

JaneDoeDoeJaneJaneDoe · 27/03/2012 00:43

and dont apologise :)

SodoffBaldrick · 27/03/2012 00:46

"Sex with someone who doesnt want it is rape"

OP - I very much disagree with you.

The above sentence is a very fundamental change in mindset. And it is a really, really important one.

You, yourself, use your ex-partner as an example of someone who would never have considered what they did to be rape.

And that is very simply because the above message in bold has never really explicitly been put out there before. It has always been 'no means no' and a whole lot of other victim-blaming terminology.

The more the above message is put out there - that 'sex with someone who doesn't want it is rape, the more it will start to sink into the psyche of men like your ex. The more they will gradually start to identify their behaviour as wrong.

It might not happen overnight, but this is a really important step in the right direction.

SodoffBaldrick · 27/03/2012 00:48

Cross-posted - no need to apologise!

Original poster
Bogeyface · 27/03/2012 00:51

I guess you are right SodOff ( :o )

As I said above, my experience colours my view, and I really dont think that he would ever see it as rape, but then I wouldnt would I? To do that would mean that I would have to consider him as a human being who didnt understand, whereas I think of him as a bastard fucking monster who degraded me.

so to me I suppose the ad will always be meaningless.

I really need to think before I post!

Jane that conviction rate is higher than I thought, but am I right in thinkinng that the majority of rape cases dont even make it to court thanks to the CPS?

OP posts:
SodoffBaldrick · 27/03/2012 00:53

I mean, the thing is, 'no means no' didn't work on him, did it? He didn't take no for an answer. :(

I'm really sorry for your experience.

JaneDoeDoeJaneJaneDoe · 27/03/2012 00:55

6% of all rape reported to the police ends in a conviction, which is abysmal.

58% of court cases result in a conviction.

Its getting to court thats hard, and the court process itself.

I would imagine with govt cut backs we may see a higher success rate in court as less cases are sent there, which again is disgraceful (but thats just my personal opinion)

Original poster
Bogeyface · 27/03/2012 00:56

You're right, but "I dont want to" never worked either.

Arrgh, headfuck.

OK, stepping away from this until I have managed to construct an intelligent reason why it bothers me.

I just really does bother me, and I cant find the right language to explain why, not sure I even understand why, it just does.

OP posts:
Original poster
Bogeyface · 27/03/2012 00:59

That explains it, I had a less than 10% number floating around in my head as the conviction rate if it went to court, I must have misunderstood.

It is abysmal and the long wait must be a big reason for the poor conviction rate. If a rape victim has a whole year or even longer to brood over going to court and seeing him again, reliving it all etc then I dont think anyone would judge her for backing out :(

OP posts:
SodoffBaldrick · 27/03/2012 01:03

The thing is, it's putting the word out there, in black and white - rape. It's telling people who rape that what they're doing is rape.

It's not nice, it's a horrible word - but more than that, it's a horrible thing to do to someone.

'No means no' is far more ambiguous, because men can rationalise to themselves that 'no sometimes means yes', 'I just have I get her in the mood', 'she's just playing hard to get', 'she always gives in eventually', etc, etc, ad nauseum.

This campaign on the other hand, tells men who rape that what they are doing is rape. This is much harder to mentally bat away and fool yourself into believing that you're not doing something bad.

Again, it might take a while for the mindset of certain entitled men to change and to make the link in their own heads, but more of this will certainly help.

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