to think that the anti-date rape ad is useless?

[Bogeyface]

I am all for making it clear to young people what is rape, but this ad doesnt really do that.

For me it was the bit at the end that says "Sex with someone who doesnt want it is rape" or something like that. The trouble with that is that it is implying a judgment decision on the part of a young and probably drunk and definitely horny teenage boy. In their minds they can convince themselves that she wants to really because she isnt fighting back for example. I had a bf try to have sex with me when I didnt want to and it was only when I smacked on the side of the head and pushed him off that he realised that I meant it when i said I didnt want to. He was genuinely non-plussed and said he thought I was just messing about and that I would have got into it

what was wrong with the old "NO MEANS NO" message? there is no ambiguity there, and the girl wont be left thinking if she led him on. She said no so he should have stopped.

Surely getting that message into the heads of teenagers would work better?

And why isnt there an ad encouraging young women to report sexual assault? The younger you are the less likely you are to report an attack, and that needs addressing too.

i agree with the concept of 'yes means yes' rather than no means no. DP has had it drummed into him (from the army - along with using your own condoms) that someone has to explicitly agree, so there is no ambiguity. Even now, when we're getting frisky, he says 'do you want to have sex' (or whatever we are doing) and i have to actually say yes before anything will proceed.

Seemed weird at first but now i like it. One act does not automatically follow on from another act so it can be stopped at any point. That is really liberating. And it is still sexy without being clinical (which has been the opposition to that approach).

I think this should be the way it is taught in schools for everyone.

I think this is a fantastic campaign, as someone who's Ds aged 7 inadvertatley saw it, allowed a late night up, and Dh went to loo whilst I made a snack, DH walked in and was very upset our boys where watching it, but it did start the questions...obviously, but we explained (not the idea of rape) but the boy was upset when he could see he wasn't being kind to his girlfriend, she wasn't happy, she didn't want to play that game he had forced her to play, they accepted this and said he could not nice boy if he could do this, and we have to be kind and understand other people can't always say what they feel.
I should say I would rather they hadn't seen it, but our fault, but these are the foundations on which I hope to grow good Men.

I'm so sorry for your experiences, bogey, I can't imagine what you went through. However, I do feel that this advert is supposed to be directed exactly at people like your ex. People who don't think what they are doing is rape, people who think rapists are strangers who jump out from behind bushes. It's exactly people like your ex who need the reeducation.

bogey I bet your ex does know he raped you. He just knows people will believe his excuses. Maybe after ads like this one day they won't.

Really sorry for what happened to you.

I think it's a good campaign too.

My mum is of the it's the fault of the girl giving out the wrong message by being drunk/being out at night alone or otherwise/wearing short skirts.

In fact I spent my whole teenage years telling me that if I got raped it would be my fault. And then when someone tried it, guess what? It was my fault. I believed her and so never reported it. And I wasn't even someone who dressed particularly 'sexily' I was just young.

So I think it's a great campaign.

Maybe my mum will learn something, let alone all the teenage boys out there!

I like the advert. because potentially it could be on at any time of the day, with an easy to explain message.
Missingmum. I thought your explanation was brilliant.
The same as any questions about sex, always a truthful age apropriate answer.
The advert causes the question to be asked.

bogey, I hope you don't regret posting this thead, it is conversations just like this one that changed my mind about some of my own experiences

it's an uncomfortable process, though, oh yes indeedy

and I agree, ads like this may not change the fully-entitled monsters, but they will chip away at the decnt people around them and make them think twice before going along with the bravado of a rapist

*decent

I don't think you need to apologise either bogey, and I hope you don't regret the thread either.

It sometimes is very difficult to look at something that is close to your own experience but presented in a different light. I find it very difficult to watch anything on TV that involves the loss of a baby, because for every one thing I can relate to there are two or three others that are 'wrong' from the POV of my experience.

But it's only by speaking up and saying "well, that's not how it was for me" that people get every side of the story, or at least can acknowledge that each experience is different rather than an identikit copy.

I also like the campaign.
My experiences have been similar to Folkgirl, possibly with being older, that it didn't matter if 'No' was said, the girl had already agrred to sex by dressing in a certain way, or going back to a boys house.

Sexual assaults were considered a joke and just 'boys being boys'.

A rape joke was put on my DD's fb (16), when this ad came out, but then another boy kicked off at the poster and a really good disscussion followed, which included a discussion on promiscuity and just because a girlis considered easy, it doesn't mean that she is fair game.

Girls are talked to over reporting sexual crimes, but the message that they will supported, regardless of their decision, needs to be equally put forward.

The question should be asked before a girl is even touched,before a girl has chance to say 'no' to sex, the chances are that she has already been assaulted, in some way.

OP I'm sorry for what you went through - I'm glad you posted this though, as it's only by discussing these things that attitudes will change.

Rape myths are widespread and well-entrenched in society. They need to be countered and exposed wherever possible - this ad, the MN 'we believe you' mythbusters, all do a little bit to chip, chip away at the myths and victim-blaming. It was coming onto the feminist section here that the penny dropped for me - and now I see rape myths everywhere, even coming out of the mouths of my own female family members.

One other point on encouraging women to report sexual assault- A lot of victims fail to report their assault for fear of not being believed. Changing people's attitude towards rape victims, challenging the victim blaming and denial of rape will go a long way to help this. This ad will indirectly be encouraging victims of sexual assault to firstly, recognise that they were raped, (particularly difficult when in a relationship with the rapist), and secondly, recognise that it was not their fault they were raped, it was the rapists. Believing the rape myths that it is their fault they were raped stops women from reporting.

Glad you posted. These things should be discussed.