Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

to think my cousin's PhD is a fraud?

55 replies

saffronwblue · 26/03/2012 10:45

Brief back story- we have always been very close- same age, same school, shared a flat in London and Sydney. Once out of our 20s our lives took different paths. I have married, had children and while proud of my career have fitted it in among family. My cousin has not married and has had a stellar corporate career. She works hard and rewards herself with great holidays, fancy cars etc. I think our values have really diverged - I feel she is always talking about money and how much things cost. She probably thinks I am suburban and boring.
Over the last few years she has been writing a PhD thesis in a personal development/business crossover field.. Much of it has been researched and written by a friend of hers whom she pays for her time. My cousin also pays for each chapter to be edited which includes all the references and footnoting.
I am really horrified about this. I do not have a doctorate but have considered it a few times and am still seared by how hard my husband worked to write his. I probably am being U and know I am being judgey. It just irritates me that my cousin is so proud of herself when she has done it like a corporate project and outsourced the actual work!
A couple of years ago she threatened to sue her university on the grounds that her supervisor was inadequate. They are clearly terrified of her and will pass anything she hands in. She is very powerful and high profile.
I have to learn to let it go and be pleased for her as she has had a number of recent blows in life. But oooh it is hard!

OP posts:
TunipTheVegemal · 26/03/2012 10:49

sounds like she is a cheat and her university are lily-livered wimps.

YANBU at all.

Chrysanthemum5 · 26/03/2012 10:51

Well there isn't much you can do about it if it's true. However, she will presumably have to have a viva, and may get found out at that point?

WorraLiberty · 26/03/2012 10:52

Horrified? Seriously? Grin

Yes, you need to let it go.

In the nicest possible way, it's absolutely none of your business is it?

theworldaccordingtome · 26/03/2012 10:57

Worra - She should be horrified. It is people like this woman that lower the value of degrees at every level including PhDs. The more people that have them and the easier they are to obtain, particularly through dishonest means, the less they are worth.

OP can you prove this? If so, report her to her University's Academic Quality department (or equivalent). If you can't prove it, just hope that her viva catches her out.

WorraLiberty · 26/03/2012 11:01

Sorry but I prefer to save my horror for something actually horrific

She'll probably get caught out with the viva anyway.

But I certainly wouldn't be reporting my own cousin.

MightyNice · 26/03/2012 11:02

also wondered how she would get through viva, let's hope she gets some really tricky questions

Thingiebob · 26/03/2012 11:03

YANBU. I would find it hard not to say something. She is getting her PHD via fraudulent means and won't deserve it.

saffronwblue · 26/03/2012 11:03

She does not have to have a viva. ( It is a low ranked Ausralian university). It is being sent to two external examiners to read. I can't report her- there is so much history between us. We just have this difficult relationship where I love her but do not always like her. Of coure this relationship clouds my feelings about her thesis. Worra you are no doubt right, but it is hard when she brings the conversation around to what a great achievement it is and how proud her parents (both dead) would be of her. I just smile and nod and change the subject. I have somehow missed the moment when I could have said that it is a fraud and now feel desperately uncomfortable whenever it is mentioned.

OP posts:
Popsandpip · 26/03/2012 11:04

Playing devil's advocate here, it sounds like she has outsourced the more mundane aspects of the work but you make no reference to her input in the 'thinking' part of it. Did she come up with the thesis, develop the insights, create cogent arguments, etc.? If so, I know it grates a bit but you're probably being a little unreasonable. If she did nothing then, yes, she probably doesn't deserve her qualification.

Just because she's an influential high flyer, it doesn't mean that a university will simply roll over and wait for her to tickle its proverbial tummy. If it's a good uni then there'll be plenty of other high flying students. And if it's not, then her PhD won't be that valuable anyway.

theworldaccordingtome · 26/03/2012 11:04

Cheats are ok as long as they're family?? Hmm

SarkyWench · 26/03/2012 11:05

The situation you describe would clearly contravene the relevant regulations at our university.

The key issue, however is the knowledge of the supervisor. If the supervisor knows what has been going on and has allowed it, then she would have a very strong case against the uni for effectively wasting her time. If the supervisor does not know then then she will be entirely at fault for breaking the regs.

Either way she should not be awarded a phd, and a good (independent) external examiner should pick up that this is not eniterly her work.

ilovemydogandMrObama · 26/03/2012 11:05

really winds me up. Another student I was at uni with, got a First and openly admitted she copied half her dissertation. Grrrr.

I'm too scared to cheat if nothing else...

JaxTellerIsMyFriend · 26/03/2012 11:06

how would her viva catch her out? If she is smart enough to have out sourced her thesis then she will have studied it so she knows what it is about.

throckenholt · 26/03/2012 11:07

When I did my PhD I used to get very irritated with the odd person who routinely got other people to do much of the work for them. It is bloody annoying. Nothing much you can do about it though - just hope at some stage they get their comeuppance.

I guess it is a question of honesty - a PhD should be down to your own hard work.

Blackduck · 26/03/2012 11:08

The point is a PhD is supposed to be your own work, including the boring mundate bits. So even if she has done some 'thinking' by the sounds of things she hasn't written it so clearly this is cheating. But any University that hands out a PhD without a viva fankly isn't worth much.....

HardCheese · 26/03/2012 11:08

I wouldn't guarantee a viva catching her out - if she has, as you suggest cowed her supervisor and department (which is appalling in itself, even if business studies/personal development crossover studies sounds like total bullshit to me), she's likely to be involved in selecting her own external examiner, and her 'weak' supervisor may well collude with choosing a tame extern and pushing for a pass to get this woman off her books and out of her life. I've certainly seen this happen - not in a cheating situation - in situations with problematic doctoral students, where there can be significant institutional pressure to push students through.

I agree it's an appalling situation, but not sure what you can do, unless you have proof and you're prepared to do what the worldaccordingtome suggests.

theworldaccordingtome · 26/03/2012 11:09

The last was aimed at Worra.

OP I didn't realise you were outside of the UK, not familiar with the Aussi system sorry. If you can't/won't do anything about it then I would try to stop worrying about

stopthecavalry · 26/03/2012 11:10

It is cheating. A Phd is research training as well as the production of some new knowledge. If she isn't doing the research herself then this is wrong.

QuacksForDoughnuts · 26/03/2012 11:11

The uni in general might for whatever reason take a lot of shite from her, but that will not on its own get her through the process. External examiners are not bound by any department loyalties/conventions apart from the official rules on due process - hence that person will not pass her if there is anything iffy about the thesis. It also sounds like your cousin has no affinity with people in her department - if she gets significant corrections, which she will if her examiners suspect anything, she will need at least basic guidance from the internal examiner and probably a lot of help from her supervisor. That may not be forthcoming if she has behaved like a brat the whole time. (In the interests of full disclosure I passed my PhD a couple of months ago, after major corrections, so I spent the year prior to that up to my eyeballs in that particular process...)

cuttingpicassostoenails · 26/03/2012 11:11

A friend of mine has just completed her PHD. Or rather, her husband has. He wrote her thesis. He also wrote the thesis for her Masters. I don't know how she gets away with it but she does.

QuacksForDoughnuts · 26/03/2012 11:13

Also, even if she doesn't get caught out at that stage, her career prospects will be severely limited by a) not knowing her stuff (unless she plans to pay her ghostwriter for the rest of her life) and b) acting like an entitled brat. We get enough of that from the students, don't need it from colleagues as well. Maybe that bit doesn't bother her if she has a career elsewhere already - after all, the pay in academia is likely to be worse! - but it will limit her options.

WorraLiberty · 26/03/2012 11:13

Cheats are ok as long as they're family?? Hmm

Did I say that? Or did I say I wouldn't report my own cousin?

There's nothing ok about cheating, but just like the OP I wouldn't report her as it's none of my business.

belgo · 26/03/2012 11:14

Did she not have to defend her thesis? Four or five visiting doctors come and listen to her explain her thesis, and then ask interrogate her?

saffronwblue · 26/03/2012 11:25

cuttingpicassostoenails does your friend expect you to congratulate her? The hardest bit for me is the huge gulf between how I feel about it and how she expects me to feel.

OP posts:
Hecubasdaughter · 26/03/2012 11:27

I don't have a problem with someone getting a thesis proof read for typos etc but everything else OP describes I would consider cheating.

As someone else said it devalues the degrees of honest student. PhDs are supposed to be hard work, it's part of the point isn't it?