AIBU to think East Coast trains are not child-friendly?

[seoladair]

I've previously booked passenger assistance several times to help me change trains when travelling alone with baby in pram, big suitcase, changing bag and handbag. The staff have been kind and helpful, and so have the people at the end of the phones when I've made the booking.

I recently got through to a jobsworth though, who said that I can't book help as the baby isn't disabled. It doesn't make sense to me - I won't be able to change platforms on my own. I physically will not be able to get from one train to the next, especially in the limited time available between trains.

East Coast is not some budget company - the train ticket between London and Scotland costs about £120, and I believe our trains are the most expensive in Europe. At these silver service prices, why can't I book help? In the past I have been helped while disabled passengers have also been helped, so I don't think it's to do with staff availability.

I think I will have to travel by plane in future, which is a shame as I'd rather take the environmentally friendly option of going by train, but with the plane, I know I'll get the help I need.

BTW when I was pregnant and tried to book help with luggage with Scotrail, they refused on the basis that getting pregnant was my lifestyle choice. That attitude oesn't help much when you need to travel alone somewhere.....

Simple answer. money and the ongoing impact of privatisation and parcelling/compartmentalising of service. last year East coast procured a new supplier. A call centre in newcastle was previously used which had to close as they didn't win the tender. at the previous centre, in addition to telesales, there were dedicated staff available to provide and arrange enhanced customer assistance, some of whom transferred from operational roles to office work after m/leave way before the route specific call centres were sold or transferred. my friend worked on that service, was very popular with returning customers. lost her job, decades of knowledge and experience lost to the industry.
On a positive note, after 25 yrs of travelling that route, I would be very surprised if staff ir other travellers didn't offer to help if you look frazzled/overwhelmed!

MrsMeaner, whether or not we are willing to pay tuppence ha'penny or not is irrelevant, as we are charged a small fortune to use East Coast trains.

Helping a paying customer alone with a baby and luggage to catch her connecting train is not a 'platinum service'. It should happen as standard.

"I would be more concerned that the guard has important safety duties at that time."

Staff who give special assistance do not have important safety duties to carry out when passengers need assistance. Would you be concerned that there weren't enough staff to carry out important safety duties if the OP were a wheelchair user? I'm guessing not. The only issue here is whether or not she meets the criteria for special assistance, and I am arguing that she should.

But she is able bodied. This does not come under the DDA or equivalent. Those staff need to be attentive to passengers who genuinely need their help, rather than being left waiting while they assist someone who is fit and healthy.

It is about providing a service for an able bodied person, and being fair to other fare-paying passengers.

Mothers with babies are perfectly capable. Because the OP chooses to carry an extraordinary amount of equipment, it is up to her to pay for that. The train fare only covers two large and one small piece of equipment.

It is wise not to book tight connections when you don't know if you can cope with getting from one platform to the next.

The standard class ticket costs about £125, and I have to change in Haymarket (Edinburgh) to travel further north.
Torsihunter, your post explains a lot - I guess that's why i've seen the service deteriorating.
Witty, I'll ask the guard for help, thanks for suggestion.
Tether -exactly. A baby is similar to a disabled person, so if I were travelling with a wheelchair-bound three-year-old I'd be eligible for help. Yes, a baby is obviously lighter to carry than a disabled adult but that's impossible with luggage.
MrsMeaner - thank you for suggesting I send luggage ahead but that's not practical if I have to make a journey at short notice. And what tether said about safety issue.

Meaner, do you work for a train company? Genuinely interested....

First or standard?

MrsMeaner I'm thinking earlier than the 70s and 80s - those decades weren't before my time From the "golden age of steam" up to perhaps the 1950s, there was a pride, cameraderie and an aim of doing the best possible job to make trains timely, comfortable, clean and welcoming. And for the most part they succeeded.

Things changed in the 1960s when Beeching closed so many of the country's railway lines. The 1980s brought severe cuts in government funding and above-inflation fare rises. Railway operations were privatised during 1994-1997.

If it was possible all those years ago to have a rail system this country could be proud of, why not now?

"But she is able bodied. This does not come under the DDA or equivalent."

I am not saying that it does- 'Special assistance' need not only cover the basic requirements of the DDA; a company is permitted to adjust the criteria in order to include those not covered by it.

My 94 yr old grandmother is not disabled, she is able bodied and is in good health. She is able to walk. She is not covered by the DDA. Yet she qualifies for special assistance.

I think they should include in the criteria parents travelling alone with small children and luggage. You know, the stuff people take on long journeys. To call it an 'extraordinary amount of equipment' is unfair, and a little absurd. It's luggage.

A baby is not similar to a disabled person

Babies are very small, for a start. You can carry them in a sling, freeing up the pushchair for your luggage. Or you can keep the baby in the pushchair, and get a decent sized rucksack for your luggage, and hang the changing bag on the pushchair. There's loads of ways to manage it without needing to book assistance.

I regularly manage to take the train several hundred miles with a baby and a smallish child and all associated paraphenalia and really, its not impossible at all. If you are struggling you will almost always be offered help by another passenger and if you aren't, then ask the nearest person who looks able to assist (I suggest asking a teenage boy - IME they will help graciously and pull funny faces at the baby )

Nobody is saying that it's not possible to 'manage'- just asking why you should be expected to 'manage' and struggle when you are paying a tidy sum for a service.

Everyone else manages and they are paying the same tidy sum.

No, they don't. My Grandmother doesn't.

Anyone who needs assistance with their luggage should be able to get it.

I've found people generally go out of their way to be helpful and will often help me lift the pram/carry bags onto the train.

MrsMeaner - tuppence ha'penny??? It's £120!!!! Hardly cheap as chips!

If train companies have to factor in the cost of providing special services wouldn't that push up the cost of fares for everyone?

I travel from SCotland to England with 3 children, on my own. I send a box of clothes etc down by courier (about £8 each way) and only take hand luggage and a buggy on the train. It is very doable.

They would probably say so, ilovesooty- but only because they cannot contemplate it impacting on their profits...

That's a lot cheaper than I would have guessed, BA. It's a no-brainer, really.

I agree that people with small children and luggage should be able to book help.

However, I have done it plenty of times and with more than one child. Pushchair folded in one hand, big bag/suitcase in the other. Handbag and cloth shoulder bag on shoulder with snacks/books/change stuff. Toddler holding hand, baby in sling on front or back. You only have to be like that for a couple of mins as the train arrives then you dump your luggage on the racks anyway. Changing train is a bit of a pain but you load up as you get into the station so you get off first and you leg it as fast as you can.

I've travelled all over the place with various children, of various ages. It can be tough and very tiring, less so if people are understanding.

I think a lot of assumptions are being made here.

1. 'All mothers are able bodied'. In fact many women develop back problems and joint problems and other post-birth complications which mean they need to be careful for a year or two after having a baby, if they don't want to suffer with lifelong chronic pain issues. They should not be hoiking prams up station stairs or whatever unless it is completely unavoidable. (The fact so few stations have proper lifts and sensible timetables that factor in people's different needs is one of the main issues here). It's even making a fairly big assumption that everyone can happily use slings - I can only use one for about ten minutes before my joints fail, for example.

1. 'Having a baby is a lifestyle choice therefore people should not be entitled to help'. What, like buying a dog, or a hamster? Listen to yourselves! Reproduction is a routine biological function and necessary for the continuation of the species, and not all about fun or retail opportunities. FFS.

1. 'You should only get help if you are travelling First Class'. This is PUBLIC TRANSPORT subsidised by PUBLIC MONEY to a massive extent, and as such there should be equality of access for all members of the public. If some people

have to be made to suffer whilst using it, then we've got the whole thing very wrong (remember, it's not long since disabled people were parked in guards' vans for hours on end and told to appreciate it and pay full price for the privilege. That is no more acceptable than expecting someone who has given birth to hoik all their gear around a station with practically no help, simply because some 19th century architect designed a facility that failed to accommodate adequately parents in the 21st century.

OP, do not listen to the intolerant miseryguts on this thread. Take your pram, preferably folding, and stack stuff in the shopping tray underneath as well as in a wheelie suitcase and/or backpack. Alternatively bags can be rested across the pram body if it is the right design. You should be able to struggle along with those. However on the way, ask people nicely for help. It will be fine. However I bet if you write to the train company about their employees variable and sometimes somewhat miserable attitudes to assisting passengers with children, I think it might be helpful for other parents in your position in the future.

Next someone's going to suggest sending the baby down by courier, would solve a lot of problems.

I understand OPs problem, I'm lucky to have a 10ywar old who can pull the case or push the stroller but how does one person do both?

Push stroller with one hand and pull case with the other, look uncomfortable, then ask nice looking bloke in suit to lend a hand whilst smiling a lot.

East coast are total bastardly bastards. I missed my train from london to sunderland and managed to struggle on to the next one with three kids and piles of luggage and the buggy. We had 1st class tickets as we had bought a good package deal. Just before the train departed I saw my tickets were with a different company! Having been out of the country for years I wasn't aware there was more than one in operation on that route. I asked the guard to stop it leaving while I gathered kids and everything and got off, he said no and wouldn't help...made it clear I couldn't do it before the train left. In a panic I then returned to our table to attempt to purchase tickets online... The wifi down. I wac harv everything to move into second class when the ticket collector showed up. He forced me to pay 300pounds or be arrested. I was not allowed to change carriages or get off at the next stop... He was rude and I was embarrassed in front of the whole carriage. it totally spoiled our trip to london and I was shakey and cold the whole journey even wearing a coat. The steward refused to provide tea even though it was meant to be included in 1st class price. even the electricity want working so my laptop ran out of charge so no dvds for the kids. I write to complain and received suche a rude reply and not even an offer of money off another journey. I will NEVER travel east coast again.

Sorry.. My phone is awful for typos.

I just looked at their website, and there is practically nothing on being family friendly. I was a bit surprised, tbh. I think it really would be helpful if this was challenged by regular users.

Mumsnet campaign??

www.familyandparenting.org/NR/exeres/362B9D41-F2B2-4BE8-9B66-EE454F22796F,frameless.htm?NRMODE=Published