To think that not all old people have worked hard all their lives...

[MrsKittyFane]

Go on, flame me.

My parents twenty two when I was born so if they live to a similar age as their parents then I will be 65 ish' myself, so I would rather they left it to my kids so they don't have this struggle.

My dad sometimes jokes about throwing the first handful of dirt on me, but given a lifetime of free healthcare and the prospect of 30 years plus of retirement, it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

I would just like to add that I am in no way resentful of the way my parents have managed to take advantage of their opportunities. I am happy that atleast they have managed to get a win.

What I, and many others on here, resent is the total lack of understanding that our parents have about our own difficulties. Their refusal or inability to see that we cant work harder or get better jobs or save more or spend less. If we could, we would, but we cant. If they could just appreciate that they had help that we dont have (the free childcare in my parents case being just one example) then it would make our struggles a bit easier to bear.

A little bit of understanding (and little bit less selfishness) would go a long way. My mother doesnt need her job, she is the first to admit that, so keeping it is selfish. And that grates, it really grates.

A bit of sympathy, thats all I ask!

Actually Lesley, it's not necessarily true that most BBers aren't pensioners yet. Depends on your definition of a pensioner, and a BBer I guess.

For those who don't know, pension credit is a payment by the state to anyone over a certain age whose income doesn't already meet a min threshold. About £135 weekly for a single person, £209 for a couple. You might get all of it if you have no other source of income, or just a bit of it if you have some others. Crucially, it's available before state pension age. Eventually the eligible age will go up to 65, which is much younger than I'll be able to retire. But at the moment, it's below. I think it's about 61 for women and 62 for men- confusing at the moment as it's transitional. So people some years below state pension age can get a pension benefit from the state. The percentage of BBers at pension credit age is obviously going to be rather higher than the percentage of them who are over 65. And this doesn't include those who get private pensions earlier than 65. You could argue that nobody under state pension age is a pensioner. But that's unconvincing, when a person is receiving an age based pension benefit from the state. Especially if it's more generous than they'd get if they were younger.

Anne Diamond was doing the newspaper review on Sky a few days back and she said something interesting and it was the first time I had heard anyone her age say it.

She said that people her age are going to have to start accepting that living in a £500k house and then expecting the state to pay for all your care costs rather than sell your house is going to have to change.

The BBers and the slightly older generation above them have vast untaxed and unearned wealth tied up in housing. That has two effects in that it blocks young families getting the housing space they need and means those same young people will have to pay ever higher taxes to pay for those old people to be cared for and provide them pensions in future.

If old people had to sell houses to pay for their care, it would go a long way to relieving the resentment that is building against their generation. Part of the recent housing bubble was caused by an artificial shortage of housing due to the fact that old people living much longer and generally alone or as a couple sitting in houses that 5 people could comfortably live in.

There is no housing shortage. The space we have just needs recycling as people move through different phases of life.

The Tories won't do that of course, because people like the ones you describe vote for them, whereas young struggling people don't.

To be fair, they'd also harm their chances amongst lots of 20, 30 and 40 something children of baby boomers who are very attached to the idea of inheriting said houses. BBs aren't the only ones who may vote based on naked self interest. Though I accept that younger people are less likely to vote.

Though thinking about it, a policy of selling your house to pay for care in old age is only a short term, one generation solution. Given that home ownership for so many people now will not be on the cards, and that they won't inherit money their parents made on their houses, because it will all have been spent on care in old age.

Tis a tricky one and no mistake.

It is true that the pensioners have a powerful block vote.

The furore over the 'Granny Tax' in the budget (which is not actually a tax at all just a freezing of a benefit) is a practical example of how the BBer generation will continue to maintain its grip on Govt policy at the expense of younger generations.

Gordon Brown understood this well and always made sure pensioners were well looked after to help deliver the successive election victories new Labour had.

There was an interesting letter from a pensioner in yesterday's Independent. She noted that in a couple of years she would have no advantage over normal tex payers, and at that point you thought you knew where her letter was going, until she reminded herself of her free travel pass, free TV licence, free prescriptions, her winter fuel allowance, and the variety of substantial discounts offered to pensioners. On top of this, she said, she was only likely to get a 5.2% rise in her pension next year. "It's absolutely outrageous," she ended.

I hear you Bogey!!!!

Dsis and I have had a few conversations with the dps along that line.

Re the Anne Diamond comment,she's so right.Said pensioners are also going to have to accept that they should pay to heat their £500K house themselves and that they are sitting on a stonking amount of equity thus shouldn't be getting half the perks they do.

This oh we've been in our house for years and don't want to sell so should have benefits to heat it and keep us there is very slightly .Errr so all us youngsters that are struggling to pay mortgages can we have some of those perks too?

I paid a small bloody fortune to get the dc and I home from town on the bloody bus recently due to only being able to run 1 clapped out old car which dp needs. Most pensioners I know have new cars which they replace yearly and are more than capable of affording petrol(not having extortionate commuting costs) thus don't need a friggin bus pass.My dp both have one one which ddad only uses to come home from his boozy lunches on.

I must be very lucky I think. My parents are in their 80s now. They do have a lot of equity in their property, they do go on holiday once a year. They own some very lovely antiques. But I have no memory of them doing other than working very hard during their life times. Yes my dad was extremely fortuante to retire early but they filled their lives after that with voluntary work, growing their own veg and being largely self-sufficient. They have always helped us out financially, and practically, when they could. I can honestly say I can't see how they could have helped us out more than they have. They aren't baby boomers - maybe that's the difference.

Lol at people working very hard in antique filled homes doing voluntary work and growing own veg.

My poor mother completely missed out on the baby boomer years. In theory she is one but the working class boomers are often far from booming. She never home owned, was single parent without CSA payments, did not claim welfare benefits, working all sorts of menial jobs and lived with her parents in a council house until they died. She is still paying rent in said council house and lucky to afford a week in a caravan, buys second hand, watches food bills very closely, no inheritance and not by any UK yardstick is she 'comfortably off'. There are lots just like her and she will come to live with us as she gets older. She is great.

I think (and there will be exceptions) the vast amount of wealthy baby boomers are at least lower middle class (by their own jobs rather than their background). I see them usually in Puerto Pollensa around September where they are normally on their 5th foreign holiday that year. They are the ones usually refusing to do any babysitting as they are entitled to enjoy their 30+ year retirement and whom are constantly being in tun vilified and defended by their middle class children on mumsnet threads about lack of grandparent involvement.

"Lol at people working very hard in antique filled homes doing voluntary work and growing own veg. "

Do you think that is itsn't possible to be hard-working surrounded by antiues then? What a strangely warped perception you have. The point I was trying to make is that they have made their comtributions over their life time and have never had benefits - dad opted out of the state pension years ago and they live, not extravagantly, on their own incomes. Owning assets doesn't make you cash rich although they are slowly selling things to make ends meet.

And they have frequently baby-sat for us, in fact looked after all our children for one day a week until they started school. Even now they pick our youngest child up from school and then take all the children back with them for dinner. But as I say they aren't BBs.

Lol at people working very hard in antique filled homes

That is a matter of luck, my GM's massive house was compulsary purchased, (it wasn't slum) and she could only take a few bits of furniture with her, to the council flat they put her in. She had worked her way out of extreme poverty in the 1930's, by running boarding houses.

She got a pittance for the property and used some of the money to help my mum and 2 aunties, who lived in other parts of the house, to buy furniture/rehouse themselves.

I think what I find most infuriating about the baby boomers is how blinkered they are.

They have benefited from an unusal period in history and good luck to them on that, I say.
However, I do wish they would have the good grace to accept it was unusual and that the younger generation will find it much harder, rather than spend their time declaring all young people lazy etc.

I actually think it is parents of BB who are most likely to not want houses sold to pay care home bills because of inheritance. Sadly have come across families where the adult kids pressurise frail parents to stay in their home to avoid the house being sold when they go into a care home.

I absolutely think this should happen. But I think you are mistaken to think that it is only BBs pushing for this not to happen.

My parents worked hard, my dad was born in the bb generation but didn't buy his house. His parents were moved out of london after the war and given social housing. His parents died when he was in his 20s and he raised his little sister until she married. He was allowed to stay in the council house which he exchanged to a 3 bedroom when he married my mum and they were expecting me. Nowadays he would have had to move to a 1 bed place as he wouldn't have been allowed to stay in a family house (there was a recent case here where a mans parents had died and he wanted to stay in his home but was forced out as the tenacy can only be passed over once) or buy his own house.
I remember my parents being offered the chance to buy the house in the 80s for about 20k. Those houses are now worth £250k. But my parents decided against it.

The bb generation were very lucky, right time. We couldn't afford to buy a house at all now. I have a look every week and the cheapest around here for a family is about £200k.

I, for one, cannot wait for tinysock to get old.

What is the definition of a bany boomer then? Am beginning to wonder if I, not my parents are BB

Omrian your parents sound lovely but I hope you're not inferring that due to them being not cash rich from sitting on an antique stuffed,equity rich house we as a nation should be funding their retirement.

Before I start paying for bus passes,WFA etc I'd like to see some of these houses and antiques sold.That way the money could be spent on the less well off pensioners and our generation could have a tax cut in order to save for our own retirement.

No. The tax payer isn't funding their retirement. They get no state pension. I beleive they once used their free bus passes when dad broke his foot as mum isn't confident to drive these days. And as i say they are already selling of bits and pieces to make their lives a bit easier.

But what I don't understand is the whole premise of the thread - that somehow people do or do not deserve help depending on whether they have worked hard. That seems to open the door to a lot of worrying attitudes - the deserving old as opposed to the undeserving old . It seems to me that what people are resenting so forcefully is the funding of old people who have money regardless of how they got it. Which is a similar debate to that on CB really - should people who earn what a lot of others think is a big income get state benefits of any kind? It isn't a new argument but this one appears to be seasoned with an extra little bit of spicy envy and a piquant dislike of the old.

I suppose my parents could sell their house, spend their equity and end up on the council doorstep demanding to be housed? But i am not sure it would help anyone. And before anyone asks I have made it clear they should come and live in a smaller house nearer me but they aren't ready to make that move as yet. Perhaps their house should be compulsorily purchased to make room for a family. Seems a little draconian perhaps?

Errrr many downsize,they are lucky they can do so and still have a nice paid off house with a lump sum in the bank.Life's tough,many would love to be in their position,this is the point many are making.Many families are facing total shit and people such as your parents think why should they move until they're ready.They can move whenever they like but the sense of entitlement that the rest of us should fund them living in a house they can't afford because they're not ready kind of gives me the hump.Sorry but it's la la land.

If we're going to start chipping away at things like CB then I don't think people like your parents should get WFA,free TV,bus passes etc and any other tax breaks.A state pension yes but the rest of it should only be for those who need it not somebody sat on a large amount of equity who can well afford to pay for these things themselves.

mrsh - I just told you they don't get these things - not even a state pension. Your palpable envy appears to have damaged your eyesight. And they aren't asking for anything! Or do you think they should be forced to move simply because you don't like them having a nice house? Regardless of whether they are getting any state help or not?