To think that not all old people have worked hard all their lives...

[MrsKittyFane]

Go on, flame me.

I think this is just another example of the 'divide and conquer' tactics of the government.

Splitting people up into deserving and non deserving.

How many times have we heard about 'decent hard working families'? as if there is a strict deliniation between the two groups DHWF v lazy, workshy benefit claiming families.

Nothing in between.

We have
Tragic, grateful, meek disable people with distinct, visable disabilities. These disabilities must be aquired (pref doing something noble or caused by someone from a LWBCF). They should be living at home with their parents.
V
Loud, healthy looking, independance claiming disabled people who want to live a normal life and do not apologise for being disabled.

Old people who have worked their whole lives and just want to enjoy their old age in cosy comfort, not bothering anyone and voting Tory
V
Younger people who probably never worked a day in their lives and like to spend their time laughing at commutors and pissing up war memorials.

Every so often DC adds yet another group to the undesirables and yet more people fall for it.

Witness the jealousy fueled vents on MN. People who think they havent got enough moaning about people who have less than them not being grateful enough

Lesley33 the 18 year olds that bought houses were the ones who had a job in an office and as a delivery driver, they are about 5 years older than me but since houses were £33k and they earnt £20k between them it wasn't so "out there" as it might sound.
Another one that springs to mind bought on her own as a deputy manager of a bookies on about £9k, now she did struggle but non the less she was a home owner at 18, can you imagine that happening now ?

How long ago Heswall. From salaries doesn't sound as if you are talking about BBs, more like 15 - 20 years ago?

Like another poster said define work, women were expected to do EVERYTHING back then men helping out was generally sneered at. they may have been at home all that time buts its bloody hard.

Also I find its men who trot this cliche out alot, When again I'd put money on the fact their long suffering wives worked alot harder than they ever did.

To those who are refusing to believe that BBs have it so good then I would say that you are blinkered.

The fact that you didnt personally know anyone who did have a good pension or their own home does not mean that it didnt happen. Just because you or they didnt take advantage of the opportunities, doesnt mean that they werent there. The fact is, and it is a fact, that the BB generation are and have always been the best off in terms of health, wealth and opportunities in history, that has been proven. Saying "oh no their not because I dont know anyone who bought their own home" is like saying that I dont believe in India because I have never been there! I havent seen it with my own eyes, but I know it exists.

Comparing the BB housing market with later situations is not relevant because at no point since the 60's/early 70's were houses so cheap compared to income. Prices have crept up steadily ever since, meaning that only winners are those who invested in the 60's/70's.....the baby boomers! Thats why my parents and many others of their age are so asset rich. My parents first house cost £3000 in 1970 (when mum was days past 20 and dad was still 19), and their property is now worth £250,000 having moved once since then, and is mortgage free.

In your world maybe , but certainly not in mine.

Have you forgotten the high unemployment and house repossessions of the 80s?

All plain sailing was it from 1970 until now?

Totally agree Bogey.Some people need to read the Jeremy Paxman article for a bit of reality.There were a lot more houses to buy too,houses with decent size rooms instead of pie em high shoebox rooms.

I also found the Hunter Davies article an amusing read yesterday in the Times.

The one entitled "Spare any change?Sorry,I'm a pensioner.......Which means that I've got a large empty house to look after,interest free savings to spend and a cruise to catch."

Not sure if he wanted sympathy or was being ironic but either way I think it illustrates the reality that not all pensioners are sitting in cold flats,penniless having had a hard time of it in the years running up to retirement.

Yes the poor pensioners are but many pensioners were middle and upper income earners lets not forget.

Pensioner envy , only on MN

My own mother was on benefits until 2000 and bought her house under the right to buy in 2001, she got a job especially for the mortgage application. Her house is now worth £140,000 so some poor soul will have to be earning £40,000 ish to live in the arse end of town and live next door to people who were council tenants, had their rent paid by housing benefit for 20 years and then hand them a lump sum to blow on saga cruises.

Pensioner envy-you're damn right.

My parents, in laws(middle income earners like dp and I) and their friends are living the life of total riley the like of which I doubt most of us on MN will never in a million years experience when we retire.

And I should add my mother,mil and all their friends never worked.How many families do you know that can manage on 1 income?I don't know any.

FIL does a standard, semi-skilled job for Transco. He works 8-4, never a minute longer. MIL is in admin, 3 days a week. She has NEVER worked full-time, apart from aged 16-17, before she fell pregnant with DH. She was a SAHM until her youngest was at secondary school. Neither has qualifications beyond GCSEs.

They have a £££ detached house in a very smart and sought after part of town, a new car every 3 years, and 2 2-week foreign holidays a year. Their mortgage is paid off and they are not yet 55. Their neighbours of the same age are all plumbers, nurses, electricians etc.

That sort of lifestyle just simply isn't available to people with "ordinary" jobs anymore. I am envious, but I don't begrudge them, as they know they are lucky, and have pretty much bought both DDs' entire wardrobes.

Lots of confusion on this thread again about 'the Greatest Generation' and the baby boomers. Baby boomers were born AFTER the war, so by definition that means they never fought for their country (unless they volunteered to) and they weren't the ones working on the Clyde shipyards and tending to the wounded in hospital as a volunteer on double-shifts or dying at the Menin Gate as Hecubasdaughter describes her family: that was the Greatest Generation and as I said, the welfare state was put in place in response to the sacrifices they made for their country.

Nobody disputes that that generation had hard lives. All of us can tell stories of the hard lives of our grand-parents / great-grandparents. Unfortunately that generation of elderly people who had hard lives are now all over 80 or have passed away already.

The baby boomers by contrast benefited from decades of post-war expansion all underpinned by a generous welfare state. They reaped the rewards of their own parents' hard work. I can't say I see much evidence of any fruits of their labour that will be reaped by the generation to follow them.

To those who say 'MIL never worked hard' etc. Well, she must have been raising children, hence she is your MIL! Little bit of SAHM bashing going on I think.

Not necessarily CJ2010, mine pissed off with her new husband and left DH to fend for himself as a young teen.

Actually, not even that good, pissed off to Spain and left DH to care for her elderly father, when he died inherited the lot and promptly moved down south with the proceeds.

My parents have definitely had it relatively easy as the epitome of baby boomers, but I don't begrudge them what they now receive. They do sometimes make crass remarks re. saving for a mortgage but in fairness, only DM does that and it is because she is completely clueless about finances. My DF would never say anything like that because he actually understands the figures involved vs what we have to live on. They would be bloody fools to refuse the state pension or insist on paying more tax! The certainly didn't "kick the ladder away", they aren't politicians! They are very generous with what the have and if they want to go on two holidays a year, that's their prerogative. Them not going wont allow me to go instead, will it? Don't go after the people receiving the distribution, go after the people doing the distributing.

CJ2010 yes many women will have been SAHMs, my MiL, who I referenced upthread as never having done a day's paid work in her life but now has a pension of £40kpa, is one. However, in order to acquire that pension, FiL worked for forty years. MiL spent less than half that time raising children, and had help in the house for some of it.

OP is right, not all elderly people worked hard for what they have.

Oh, and the alternative to the state caring for them is that we have to do it instead. I'd rather they got a pension than moved in with me at 65!

Ttoddlerama* I disagree in that many did "kick the ladder away" by voting in governments that protected their investments and incomes whilst simultausly bollocksing things up for their kids. At besbest it was naive to assume we would have it as easy as they did a was incredibly naive and at w When my mum was talking about how much their property had increased in value, I pointed out that it was precisely that that was making it hard for us to buy and she said "you'll just have to save harder"! She simply refuses to accept that we can't buy a family home based on three times a single income like they did, and worse, doesn't care because "I'm alright Jack". My sister can't afford to have a family because her and bil both have to work full time to cover the mortgage, and childcare would cost too much. Mum and dad wouldn't help with the childcare because, as they say, they have their lives to enjoy! Shame. That my sister and I will never be able enjoy long affluent retirements.or

Sorry on my tab!

It should say that they were at best naive and at worst downright selfish.

It's the attitude of some of them, when we were viewing very ordinary houses up north that were priced at £300k, nice areas but the local people were earning £25k at the time, my DH was on £50k and we lived like kings relatively, but the people we would be viewing the houses of openly told you I won't take a penny less it's for our future or we have to think of our grandchildren whilst cooing over my babies but happy fucking over their parents, it makes you cross.

In living memory what is happening is unprecedented: a generation are experiencing worse living standards and earning opportunities than their parents.

I wonder how much of this is down to attitude: my grandparents wanted something better for their children, the memory of the hungry 30s and the war fresh in their memories, whereas my parents seem to have the 'I'm alright Jack and sod the kids' attitude.

That's what gets me too "I'm alright jack" do sod the lot of you. In our corner of the north west there are shoeboxes around the &150k mark and then a massive jump to 300k because of greed. Wages just won't keep pace with what some bb think they are "owed".