To be really upset to read on MN

[shootingstarz]

That parents are going without food because they can?t afford to feed their kids.

Wasabi I'm in France!

Sounds amazing vitamin. Do you mean that the better off pay over the odds to subsidize the worse off, or does the gvt cover the cost?

Excellent link MsRinky

It's subsidised by the state!

There are virtually no for-profit nurseries (I only know of one - a Montessori one). Most are owned by the local council, some are non-profit associations run by parents.

I was vice-president of a parental one for a few years and we received subsidies from the local council (because our town didn't have a public nursery), the county council and social security.

Our prices were lower than many nurseries, because parents helped out (with things like laundry, DIY etc) in exchange for lower fees.

Just to clarify - the parental one paid full-time professional staff to run the nursery! Parents just helped out with the maintenance, administrative stuff etc.

I'm astounded by some of the attitudes on this thread. Seems some posters think that poverty is only something that happens in the developing world, despite people posting details of the struggles to keep their family going in this country today. How can anyone be so callous.

Also, while this system is costing the state money, I would imagine it is more than compensated for by them not paying out as much in IS, HB etc to these families since the women are able to work for a living.

I may be repeating someone else, as haven't read the whole thread. I'm on benefits and will shortly go back on to 'assessment' which means my income will go down by at least £30 a week. I live on my own and have a reasonable landlord so, although at terrifying levels of penny-pinching, should be able to survive on that.

I wanted to write my answer to those who judge the poor and prescribe what we "should" and "shouldn't" do. I do things I shouldn't. I've recently bought some stuff for the house and some underwear I needed but should have gone without - I bought them on credit, which is at very high interest. I smoke (roll ups, but still expensive.)

I have a mental illness. I'm not able to monitor myself 100% of the time; now and again I'll get utterly miserable and convince myself a purchase is worth it for my sanity. Stopping smoking causes such excruciating anxiety, I have planned suicide while giving up. Of course this isn't ideal, sane or rational: if I were perfectly healthy, I would still be well-off!

My condition is a common and more-or-less manageable one. Other people have it far worse - what about bipolars whose manic phases lead them to believe they can afford anything they want, or schizoids who hear voices telling them to buy this & that? What about people plagued by awful memories, who use drugs or alcohol to escape them? I'm curious as to how the judges feel we could do better: put us all in hospital, costing a great deal more? Introduce yet more regulatory systems, handing billions over to companies for administration? Or let us rot in doorways?

Being poor isn't a choice, you know. It's what happens when life turns out wrong.

France is wonderful. i am not sure of Fr economics at the moment but sounds like a good place to live.

I'm still working my way through the thread but just to answer a couple of points:

Internet - my partner works 10 hour days Monday-Friday and is also setting up his own business. He needs the internet so that he can continue to work through the night at doing this once he gets home. It's £10 per month.

Undernourishment - I weigh just under 6 stone and am 5"1, I don't eat enough and I'm definitely not healthy. I did waste some money on multivitamins yesterday though to try to at least give my body some of what it needs.

plonimo you sound absolutely lovely, that was a really nice thing to do for that woman.

I've lived here most of my life, so can't really compare, but the more I read about life in the UK here on MN, the happier I am to be this side of the channel (especially regarding healthcare and women's rights)!

It's not perfect, but I can't think of anywhere else I'd rather raise my family.

I'm amazed at the posters who cling onto their belief that all poor people are feckless and make bad choices.

Some may do - as do, some 'rich' people

Many people find themselves in a poverty trap. Selling cars and having no internet makes you less able to get work - we don't all have a good bus/tube service. It's 18 miles to the next town for me.

Another thing they have here in France, which I think would be a great thing to adopt in the UK -- DH is on the equivalent of job seekers right now, and he just found out that if he gets a FT permanent job in another city, they will give us up to ?1500 toward moving costs

How great is that???

Yes, it is an expenditure on their part, but better to pay that one-off moving fee than to keep supporting an unemployed head of family indefinitely...

vitamin I've recently moved to France from the UK and I agree, it feels much safer raising a family here if you are low-income.... everything from better tenants rights to cheap childcare and better access to healthcare... it just feels like there is some breathing space. I had terrible anxiety in the UK sometimes.

There are definitely people living in poverty in France too.

Some people may find reassuring that people are/get poor because of bad choices

And how patronising to suggest to get rid of the internet!

Sorry I meant that some people may find reassuring thinking that others are/get poor because of bad choices...

Oh of course there are.

We are lucky to live in an area with lowish unemployment and good social services, and cheap rents.

For us personally, it is easier to be skint here in France than in London. And I think a lot of people in the UK would be better off if they had policies similar to some of the French ones (especially re cheap childcare).

toothb - I'm amazed at the posters who cling onto their belief that all poor people are feckless and make bad choices.

i dont see it like that. i do see other people living much easier lives on benefits than on this thread and think there must be a reason why different people have different experiences. but that does not mean it has to be down the the claimant, however it might be.

i know people living comfortably on benefits in RL, not anyone not ok. Sancti gave some indications as to possible differences.

Myleene ^^

Yes. Including me! Did you see my first post in this thread? (page 12 or 13).
Luckily my situation is only temporary until I graduate (and is partly the fault of my xh messing me around).

When I first separated from xh, I had to go to a food bank to feed my kids! When I finish medical school, I intend to "pay it forward" by helping the people I met there, whose long term prospects were far worse than I could ever imagine!

How does the French Govt afford it? What is our Govt doing wrong?

Are taxes higher in France? Maybe it is a question of priorities?
I am not English, but I've always found that there are weird views about childcare in the UK.
On MN there are lots of posters who are against the govtm funding childcare. Even here in Italy nurseries are cheaper, even though, unfortunately the government has been investing less and less money in good quality childcare.

I don't know, Kal.

But it does irritate me when people just dismiss out of hand things like subsidised childcare, or tenants rights, as things that just aren't possible. They are entirely possible in other countries, why not the UK?

I mean, I'm sure there are substantial obstacles to implementing them, but it's not impossible.

this isnt the same, but i'm on a budget.

last year it was either a birthday party for my DD for her 8th = budget £30 or lunches for myself for a month.

I ate a packet of quavers for my lunch for a month so she could have a party. Nothing too fancy, couple of friends round at the house, party tea, pass the parcel and party bags.

Kal Taxes are slightly higher in France, but given the standard of healthcare, education and welfare, I'm honestly happy to pay (well, when I was working, before going back to university, and again when I graduate).

But I think the main difference is that the private sector is much more influential in Britain! Most nurseries exist to make a profit there. Same with old people's homes. In France all these type places are state-run, so there's no profit margin to factor into the price!

Same with schools. All state schools in France are strictly secular. Religious families generally choose private schools. But most of the private schools here are more like the UK grant-maintained ones - the teachers are paid by the state and the national curriculum is followed, but the governers decide on the extra-curricular religious education and that is what the parents are basically paying for in their school fees.

Before we moved, I had my 3 DDs in a private primary school and it cost me ?95/month for all 3 (plus lunches)! My DD1 is currently in a privately-run residential school, which costs ?350/month, but that includes school fees (which are means-tested), board, lodging (she boards weekly) and extra tuition wherever necessary!

I have to say, I've never seen poverty here in France to the extent I saw it when I lived in the UK as a young child!

Despite having middle class parents, we lived in a working class suburb of a large northern city and I distinctly remember a girl in my class in infant school who only came to school alternate weeks, for several months, because she and her sister in the year above shared a pair of shoes and took it in turns to come to school!

Now, this was the mid-70s, so hopefully that kind of poverty no longer exists anywhere, but almost 40 years later it still upsets me to think about it :(