to think this is OTT and then some?

[Helenagrace]

I was tempted to namechange for this as I'm sure someone will scream troll. I am a regular non-namechanged poster and this is, sadly, very real.

My DS is a Beaver. In a couple of months time there is an overnight camp followed by a fun day. The children will stay overnight in the camp and then parents are invited to join in the activities from 10am.

I have just been told that unless I am CRB checked I cannot go to the fun day. I am not helping in any way. I am not looking after anyone else's child. I am responsible for my child alone. I am just going to enjoy the activities.

I have questioned this and the reply is that it is Scout policy that ALL adults on ANY campsite MUST be CRB cleared. No CRB form and you're not allowed on site. I pointed out that this goes way beyond any sensible guidance on how the CRB system should be operated. The Beavers' leaders have said that I must be CRB checked "because otherwise I might go into the toilets and there might be another child in there and I might get accused of something". I've pointed out that I could have all the shiny CRB clearances in the land and still be accused of something.

Apparently a local Cubs group runs a family camp and has CRB checked 300 parents this year alone. None of them are helpers, they are just attending with their own families.

I am planning to take this up with Scouts national HQ. I am not being unreasonable am I?

The point is that you are going to have access to other people's children, and other people could have access to your child. (If you think that you are going to a Fun Day just to helicopter your own child, you are mistaken.)

Scout HQ will disabuse you of few things. It isn't every year, it is 3 years (according to some areas) and 5 years in ours. We get notification from HQ after 5 years, so I assume that is the gospel truth.

If you have something on your past record it might not preclude you from joining in. If you were convicted of drink-driving I wouldn't let you drive kids anywhere on a formal basis. If you were bankrupt, you wouldn't get to be Treasurer. If you had a conviction for affray 20 years ago when you were 17 and nothing since I would ignore it.

It does not take an hour to fill in the form, it takes 10 minutes. And you do not need to provide 6 items of ID. Passport, Driving Licence, Utility Bill. I don't need copies of your birth certificate, marriage certificate, name change, inside leg measurement, blah.

The reason you (and thousands of others) should be willing to complete the form is so that I, as a leader, can at least feel reasonably confident that I am not exposing your child to an avoidable risk. And yes, the system is rubbish, but it might just work when it needs to.

Have fun with Scout HQ.

Christ, it must cost the Scouting organisation a fortune.

YANBU. It's a stupid idea to CRB every parent that attends a fun day, playing no role in events/activities or having responsibility for children other than their own.

wow really that is well just loony , have a fun day but have to be crb checked , are they paying for it ? MY dds goes to guides i go to things oh maybe i need a check to go into the hall next , I wouldnt let my child go to their camp its absurd to expect parents to have crb checks

For those who are concerned, The Scouts don't get charged for CRB checks becuse they are a Voluntary Organisation.

The reason you can't have your own personal 'portable' one is, if you were convicted of certain crimes once you had a CRB, then the organisation that applied for the CRB on you will be notified, so they can take appropriate action (like stop you volunteering with them!). If you had your own, then they couldn't notify the people you were showing it to, as the wouldn't know who it was being shown to.
Re the OP - my opinion (on face value) is the Beaver Colony is interpreting it wrongly, and being a bit OTT, but it may be they've concerns or worries you don't know about and there is a reason they are doing this that they can't broadcast.

Yes Maryz, I have 2 different CRB checks - one to be an adopter, one to volunteer at a church playgroup.

The whole thing is ridiculous and entirely counter-productive.

I know it smacks of 'the world's gone mad, 'elf n safety at it's best' etc etc but if God forbid something untoward happened at one of these fundays then the Scout Association would be blasted for not taking all possible precautions.

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Our local Scout leader had had a CRB check. He was found guilty last month of sexually abusing children over a period of time. Where I live CRB checks are viewed as not worth the paper they're written on. ( Have possibly outed myself so will be name changing)

it is ott and does create a false sense of security. but

If you have nothing to hide, why would it bother you having to have one?

I used to volunteer in school, was a governor etc and I naturally had to have a crb check. I'm not sure why, if you're not being asked to pay for it, having one would bother you to the extent you felt the need to complain.

I've just had maternity leave (teacher) but have recently been going in on the odd day. However there was definitely 3 months where I didn't have contact with kids in official capacity - has my CRB therefore expired?

The fun day thing does seem bizarre to me. As someone else pointed out, any school event would therefore need CRBs or a ban on using the toilets or something!
I understood that as long as an adult was not given unsupervised access to students for (eg) longer than the need to pee then they didn't have to be CRBed.

Frankly CRBs are meaningless. I have one. Got it to work on a film set with child actors. My boss was also CRB checked. We were both cleared. He sexually assaulted a lot of the women on set (5 in my section including myself). CRBs only pick up stuff you are convicted for. My boss was never convicted. Utterly ridiculous system in my view.

It is a crazy, inept system. With an important intent iykwim...

Firstvix, yes you need a new one, and ofsted WILL care If they find out you haven't had a new one (sorry).

I agree it is a ridiculous system that gives a false sense of security and costs a fortune.

It does seem ridiculous but you can't blame them for trying to protect children. I know they can give a false sense of security too. What's an alternative though? Surely some abusers do have a criminal record?

Also for those saying they have been CRB checked when there is not a child in site, is that not to ensure you don't have any convictions for things like fraud?

You don't need to have been convicted for something to show on a CRB, that is what the "other information" box is there.

First- the CRB can last upto three years, however it may be a condition of your LA that you have a more upto date one. If you are a member of a reglitaory body or union eg GSCC or GTC then any offence is connected automatically to your name, so you have been checked out, as such.

When i type in a name in my LA's recording system, the message will flash up "could be a risk to children" or similar, this person may not be convicted of anything. The police also use this and this would be recorded on a CRB.

So if someone has had their children removed because of violence, then they will not be cleared to work with children, in some situations. There are lots of different categories where this may happen.

It does stop certain people inflitrating childrens groups/schools etc. Some people like the conplete control that they can gain over children and seek to be in positions to do so, even befriending a vulnerable LP to go on fundays etc.

I would be interested to hear about any research looking at the effectiveness of the CRB system for protecting children. I suspect it hasn't decreased the rates of abuse of children in school/club settings but I hope someone can prove me wrong.

Does that mean I need to have a CRB to attend the Olympics them because I might be in the loo at the same time as a child?

How ridiculous ,I work in an environment where CRBs ate necessary ,they only last 3 years if you have regular access,if you don't have access in 3 months they have to be redone,the whole thing is a ridiculous meaningless racket

We have a Scout Leader in our district with a drink driving charge on his CRB.

Would you be happy about him driving your precious darlings around to events?
If he did and there was an accident would you not be crowing from the rooftops about how nobody checked?

As it stands, the County know about it and he is fine to continue in Scouting as long as he doesnt transport young people. Ever.

The rules say you must be CRB checked but what do they do with the CRB information?

You can have a CRB that shows multiple convictions for child abuse but if the rules say you only need to be checked and not have a check showing n convictions then their rules do not protect anyone.

CRBs are an entire minefield, cautions stay on the enhanced ones forever, so if your 10 yearr old DS or DD gets involved in a fight at school and the police are called they can end up with a conviction for assault that will sow up on any CRB in the future. And it doesn't have to be a physical fight, name calling iin the street overheard by a passing cop can result in an assault 'conviction'.

Sorry I haven't read every post so appoligise if this has been mentioned already.

Some scout camp sites don't allow any adults unless crb checked, are they going to one of these sites?

It is silly and ott however it is needed these days its sad but true.