To think the government can't force women to declare what their dp earns?

[ThreeLittlePandas]

I'm a SAHM and claim child benefit for my 3 children. What my dh earns is his business and the government can go whistle for it if they think that I'm going to declare his earning.

I claim CB not dh

In fact they can fuck the fuck off....

Hecubasdaughter - 'why should the poor be the only ones to have to declare everything'

all a bit dramatic don't you think

No I don't.

Ok - I do - agree to disagree.

I agree with Lydia and I think YABU

You claim CB for your DCs, not for you. If the government decides parents who earn over a certain amount don't need it, they can decide not to pay it.

Why is it just "women" who are responsible for children in your world?

Does anyone realistically think there will be any state pension there by the time we hold our very wrinkly hands out?

What I find difficult is this. In their explanation of exactly why this is fair to one income families, it was claimed that doing it any more fairly would required rewriting the tax system to abolish independent taxation and bring back joint consideration of earnings.

But that is EXACTLY what they are doing with this policy. AAAARGH!!!

(We are not affected by this, nor are we ever likely to be in our wildest dreams, but I can still see how ridiculously unjust it is )

Also to clarify, since George Osbourne seems not to understand his own policy, I heard today on the news that apparently SAHPs can still claim the CB - and therefore still be entitled to other associated benefits - but the CB will then be clawed back through the tax of the earning partner.

Still crap, but not quite as crap as the scenario I saw on the BBC website where some poor widower was worried sick he would lose his widowed parent's allowance on top of losing CB. Although frankly if that was the case I wouldn't be surprised.

Ah, I see Marmight has already made that point. Oh well, it bears repeating many times to avoid people losing even more than necessary.

'As the vast majority of people who earn over £50,000 have to do a tax return I wouldn't be surprised if a question will appear on next years return'

No, they don't. If you have straightforward tax affairs (PAYE), and you earn under £100k, then HMRC do NOT send ITRs as matter of course. They neglected to send dh one a couple of years ago, and when I queried it, that is what I was told.

It is the circumvention of the principle of independent taxation that really pisses me off. If they want to break that, then bloody well give us transferable allowances, and I'd happily lose cb.

Hear hear scaryteacher. They can't have it both ways. Oh, except they can do what they like can't they? And we have to lump it.

YABU. Anyone who earns money is required to declare it for tax purpose and most people who earn HRT already complete a self-assessment tax-return. All that will happen is that there will be a box on the form asking how many children under 18 you have main responsibility for, the assumption will be that you claim CB for them... and the taxman will make the adjustment.

CES: you miss the point. I would happily declare my income.

It is however a breach of the hard won independence of financial affairs/taxation if my DH were obliged to declare my sources income. My CB is not his wincing. It is not a household benefit, we are not joint applicants.

Now if the Govt wants to erode/remove independent taxation for married women, it can of course do so. But I do not think it should be sneaked in, presumably in the hope that no-one notices that they are doing so.

I think you miss the point. Everyone remains independently taxed. Your DH declares his income. You declare yours. You both tick the 'responsible for children under 18' box on the self-assessment. Whoever earns over £50,000 get their tax-code adjusted to claim back the CB.

If they introduce a box that asks about dependent children; then I wouldn't mind. But that's not what is proposed and would not assist in making a CB related adjustment.

For that they need to ask if you are receiving CB. Or if someone else is. That is the problem. As things stand, one adult is not required or legally entitled to know about the sources of income of the other. This removes that for married people. Which is a pity, as married women's property rights, culminating in full financial independence, is a form of autonomy which I consider important and which was hard won over many years.

This is going to be like the tax credits farce for people whose income fluctuates. They will end up having to pay back what was claimed year on year. I'm sure admin costs are going to sky rocket.

Nice little part time job in the CB office anyone?

One aspect of it is that it is tax on marriage. My DP pays higher rate tax. I will continue claiming. As far as the Revenue are concerned we are flatmates who happen to have a child together. All perfectly legit.

If we were married we would lose CB, there is no scope for married couples who live in the same house not to be considered one household.

I will lose CB and wil be watching with interest.

Apart from losing the money, I'm concerned about my NI status.

No that isn't true. You are required to declare if you are in a cohabiting relationship, same as any other benefit. They will treat you the same regardless of if you are married or not. It does say "living together as if you are married" in the description of "your partner" on the CB application form where you have to give his NI number. You are considered to be a household and not to declare it would be benefit fraud. This is the same for all benefits, they take cohabiting partners into account not just a spouse.

I think the real losers are lone parents though. A couple where both earn £30,000 but work full time will keep it but they do have to pay significant childcare costs if the child is young. A couple with a SAHP and a high earning partner will lose it but is (I think) effectively richer than the first couple as they have to pay no child care costs and the SAHP has more time to do stuff in the house (less ready meals etc). A lone parent on £60,000 does not have this backup and will not keep his or her benefit. Madness and v.v. unfair

I don't know why everyone is worrying about pensions. None of us will get state pensions, unless we are absolutely destitute by the time we get to pensionable age!!!!!
There is an aging population & not enough money, so unless we all pay alot more tax, we won't be getting pensions.

Why can they not just fiddle with child tax credits to effectively implement this? or are the thresholds different?

"arimaa Thu 22-Mar-12 10:06:53
One aspect of it is that it is tax on marriage. My DP pays higher rate tax. I will continue claiming. As far as the Revenue are concerned we are flatmates who happen to have a child together. All perfectly legit.

If we were married we would lose CB, there is no scope for married couples who live in the same house not to be considered one household."

Does it not bother you that you will be commiting benefit fraud?

"flatmates who happen to have a child together"? Bollocks, they class you as one household, you are kidding yourself.

Would you be flatmates who have a child together (oh how Friends :o) if, say, one of you needed emergency medical treatment?

We will lose entitlement to cb next year and as I am the CB claimant and the sahp I am concerned about my tax/ NI status in future years - my youngest dc is 3 and it will be a few years before I am (hopefully) employed again but it is unlikely to be full time - how can I qualify for a state pension in the future? As far as I can tell I will have 14 years of working and HRP qualyfying years then the future is ????- my browsing of the Treasury budget document has found no reference to this issue.

I am not going to moan about the loss of the cb (we will feel it though). But I do feel rather swept under the carpet as far as NI contributions go - I am baffled as to how the tax situation will work out - do I have to go through the rigmarole of claiming and then having it all clawed back through DH tax? He is in PAYE and does not fill in a tax return. Neither do I as I have zero income. All v confusing.