petty row with DH but seems a dealbreaker to me

[Sudaname]

Right - went out tonight to eat - nice local Italian - so far so good. Then went in local pub - Chelsea v Napoli was on TV - so far so good. DH and other regulars largely supporting Chelsea though not our local team by far - not the team any of them support,just supporting them on grounds English team etc etc.

I wanted Napoli to win on same grounds (l am half Italian) though wasnt really bothered either way or into the game all that much. Well Chelsea won basically and TV panned to some Italian fans looking very miserable and my DH doing a double act with another regular started saying 'Oh they'll probably go and stab some English fans now etc'

Unfortunately l had the audacity to stick up for my countrymen and pipe up with 'pot and kettle' as England fans are world famous for being hooligans etc etc as far as l know. He starts saying stuff like 'You dont know what you're talking about' etc etc.and getting really bolshee with me. l said 'I am entitled to my opinion and l have either dreamt it for the last 20 years or so or England fans are known for hooliganism etc'

He then said 'You're wrong though (then in mocking voice) - how many international football games have you been to?' (er btw he's been to one as far as l know !!)

I mean WTAF ? Who is this man ? He bore no resemblance to my usual lovely DH ! He was like some 1950s caricature - women shouldnt have an opinion on anything to do with anything especially football - that's mens domain etc etc.

We went to next pub and had another row about something and nothing (at least l thought so - I said Hiya to someone a little too enthusiastically apparently ) . So on way home he said 'Another night out with Sudaname - ends up in a row - waste of fucking time'.

He is in spare room - he went there of own accord after telling me to fuck off and leave him alone - he's sick of me etc etc.

Where's my lovely husband gone - anyone seen him ??

Lauriefairycake that's really interesting but a little worrying - if my DHs 'default position is sarcasm and being contemptuous' - he is a little sexist admittedly - only a bit though and concerned about appearances etc as you say but not to any really worrying degree maybe what some might call a bit 'old school'.

But does that not mean he is deep down not a nice person but just usually keeps it under wraps ? or am l totally misunderstanding the concept ?

Dexter about the heady combination - you're right

Notyummy thank you and no it's not a regular pattern thing by any means - he does get a bit grumpy when very tired l've noticed but apart from that we havent had a proper stand up barney for over a year.

Karma - yes l think l will this time as you say but then l hate ultimatums and last chances as l know l will maybe have to hold to them one day so its like an axe hanging over the head of our marriage that wasnt there up to yesterday iyswim.

Ooh my head hurts !

You see part of me thinks - always believe a drunk man over a sober one as he is sans inhibitions and thats the real him and his true thoughts about you etc and the other part of me thinks - 'you always hurt the one you love' and the reason he got so wound up with me is exactly that - because he has strong feelings for me or else would just be indifferent.

I really dont know which theory to go for

I know its a massive generalization but i find most football fans a bunch of twats, bitching about other teams and making up songs about players they don't like. They behave like a bunch of bitchy 12 year old girls.

[so relieved to be now married to a man who has no interest in it!]

To add to it, my sister in law came to visit me recently to advise me to get my son into football . . . to man him up a bit! Yeah right!

No, I don't think that deep down he isn't a nice person - the exact opposite in fact - I see it as struggling against our upbringing usually, perhaps his parents were a bit sexist for example?

I'm sarcastic and argumentative when exhausted/stressed - usually I can breathe and be socialised through it but sometimes my defences are down and it comes in - both my parents fought a lot/were abusive/ sarcastic - this is something I've had to fight against becoming.

In truth I see your husband as quite a sophisticated animal - he fights against his upbringing the majority of the time and he can take responsibility for his own actions by apologising the next day - and not just apologising but actually saying his behaviour was wrong.

Just one tiny thing - I don't know about you but my dh's apology doesn't always hit home for me until I've actually recovered from the argument - for me a bit of time needs to pass before I can really forgive him. You were up late last night stewing about this so it may take longer for you to feel forgiving towards him.

oh that's good. I'm so very glad I was wrong

I would forgive him.

He took responsibility, gave an unreserved apology, didn't try to make you in any way responsible for his actions, tried to explain possible reasons why he behaved so badly without trying to make them an excuse.

I would certainly forgive him.

Lauriefairycake thank you - l think l gotcha now - it's like we all have a dark side but as long as we endeavour to override it then we are still good people as its come from a source beyond our control e.g. childhood etc.

You are bang on about the recovery thing - one minute l think about his lovely apology and that l really need to decide whether to forgive him or not but then next minute l still feel quite wounded and keep replaying his words in my head - like l'm reminding myself as a sort of defence mechanism really to stop me forgiving him too easily if that makes sense.

My head really hurts now !

Ah thanks JustHecate that's lovely and yes you're right all true.

Think we can safely say DH will be spared eventually - see above thanks to the Mumsnet jury.

Besides which my head just might explode otherwise

I don't think you can write a relationship off, on the basis of one incident. He has apologised and I think the proof of the pudding is in the eating. If his apology is genuine, he will be careful not to behave this way again. People are flawed and do make mistakes and I think they are entitled to forgiveness, if they make genuine efforts not to repeat that mistake.

I think you are right to not blithely forgive or overlook something which crosses your own personal line in the sand. This has shaken you and perhaps he needs to be made aware of how much, given your particular history with your ex.

If he continues to behave badly, then you will soon know the 'true' him, but if this is the first time, then chances are he is genuinely sorry.

I think the fact that he apologised first and offered reasons but not excuses suggests that he is a decent bloke who knows he was out of order. Which, given the amount of horrible behaviour by men one reads about on here is actually quite a cheering thing to read.

Poopooinmytoes yes it is a massive generalisation but l do know what you mean !

My DH is not a football fanatic by any means he supports one team - his hometown - and not Chelsea btw - and hardly ever goes to matches just watches the big games on telly and he follows England in World Cup etc which doesnt usually take long- now l'm being bitchy. That's why l took it personally l think because l just found it hard to take an England fan with their (rightly or wrongly) terrible reputation slagging off Italian fans (i.e. my people) But it has been pointed out to me since that there have been quite a few stabbings by Italian fans so he did have a point - but l still think 'people in glasshouses' etc.

You had a row, he apologised to you, now you be big enough to apologise too and then forget about it.

id forget it tbh

Over analysis, much?

He was tired and emotional pissed and behaved like a twat. Actually four drinks IS alot over a relatively short period. He has apologised and explained that he is having a hard time etc.

Why are you still dissecting it? its over - if you carry it on, you are a fool

Thank you karma - l hope you are right and l will speak to him tonight about exactly how much it unsettled me given my history - though obviously that's not his fault he still knew about it - it's a bit like kicking a rescue dog isnt it really when you've just built up its confidence! This morning l didnt really talk much to him properly as he had to leave for work very soon.

soligold thank you - yes it does make a change l suppose and l didnt get one 'leave the bastard' did l - which also makes a change

Looks like the drink is the problem not your husband some people argue while drunk or even tipsy sounds like you both are like this , Not sure you should leave him over it as i dont know what you are both like when not out at the pub, but it sounds a bit silly when you have both been drinking ,

Whatmeworry - yes you're right and I did apologise for accusing him of being like exh which l shouldnt have so readily.

I find it bizarre that you would consider ending a relationship over this...

Yes, he was out of order (as were you at times) - and you rowed.

But then he apologised, why would you end an otherwise good relationship over this?

I don't think she wanted to end the relationship, Sarcologos, just that when a man behaves like a prick our instinct is to get far, far away from him.

as England fans are world famous for being hooligans

I would say that if have to go with what the Scum and DM like to report and not the facts, don't go out to watch football and insult every person in the pub and a good percentage of the people in the country that you have settled in.

It's a bit like someone spouting racist shit because of the popular press's reporting on an issue.

However it was tit for tat.

I agree that you should probably just let it go now. But in your shoes, I would be feeling a bit uneasy actually; you've seen a slightly nasty side to your husband. If my DH ever spoke to me in that mocking somewhat contemptuous way I think I'd fall over in shock - regardless of stress, drink, other reasons for feeling crap, I don't believe he could speak to me (or to other people) like that as it isn't part if his nature. Has he ever behaved like this before?

My DP & I were on holiday in Sorrento about 18 months ago and we had a driver take us back to the airport. He seemed a handsome hottie nice young man and he started chatting to my DP about football. Turns out the hottie man is an Ultra and started telling us how he goes to away games only to avoid the Police, gets involved in overseas violence, tells his GF that she has to put up or shut up and only ever wears blue & white striped shirts as they are Napoli's colours

Please be careful not to paint England as yobs abroad. My DP goes and he's never looking for trouble

No wineandroses he is usually a happy,affectionate drunk - if you can call it that. I have never ever seen him stagger home or even have a bit of a wobble on tbh and nor do l ever get in that state. We just go out to our local and other nearby pubs and get on great with everyone and each other - have three or four drinks max and thats it.

ButternutSquish your taxi driver sounded a charmer ! I support my local team and like most football fans dont go looking for trouble whether at the ground or watching in our local where we often have mixed fans of both teams playing. My point is there are football hooligans/yobs (whatever) of any nationality so when DH made a sweeping statement about Italian fans on the screen over the (true l accept) bad publicity about a few of them l was merely pointing out that English fans do - or have had at times (^rightly or wrongly^ as l said in a previous post) a bad reputation also.

But that did not give me the right on seeing a zoom-in of some Chelsea fans to say 'Oh theyre probably gonna trash some bars now and be fighting in the streets' as used to be often shown ^on the news^ in Europe (l wouldnt even believe the date on the DM or the Scum tbf so definitely neither of those my 'source').

I was born in England btw.

( rightly or wrongly ..... ) obviously sorry.

If you dont just forgive and make up and move on you'll have a painful marriage. It was lovely of him to apologise first thing in the morning. So he did have issues going on at work and it was uncharacteristic. I'm v glad my DP is forgiving of my bad PMT episodes.