Is it unreasonable to stop ex seeing kids if .......

[Mrbojangles1]

Following on from another thread just wondering what everyone's views are

A lady said her ex would not provide her with an address and she was happy with that, my ex has in the past done the same also wouldn't give over phone numbers so I decided that until he was willing to give his address and phone numbers it was not reasonable for him on any one to have my child with out me being able to contact them.

In my view my doing this he was either being obstructive or had somthing to hide.

Not a issue now son would old enough to give me the address himself now just wondering that's all

No I think it would be completely unreasonable for him not to give you his contact details. I would want these to so yanbu.

Im sorry, but I dont see how "But under the law the resident parent has a duty to keep the child from harm, if the NRP will not give contact details, that could be considered not in the childs best interests, so contact could be stopped"

The NRP also has a duty to keeo a child from harm, it is no more in a childs best interests for the RP to withold contact details than it is for the NRP to do it, both scenarios are damaging for a child.

The case I referred to earlier, is hugely damaging for the chlidren, they have had to take on hugely adult responsibilities at a very young age, including taking responsibility for breeching court orders.

A 7 year old should not be the one responsible for arranging contact for themselves and their little brother, nor for cancelling it.

Part of the problem though is there is no agency whose job it is to monitor contact post court hearings, so parental disputes merely continue once court is over.

I think this sort of game playing is absolutely vile, whichever parent is participating in it, or instigating it.

Just- the NRP can use the system, because the authorities know exactly where the children are, but a single person can dissappear.

In the case that you are quoting action could have been taken, but it hasn't. Both parents are allowing this to happen.

If the NRP has been harassed by the RP, or been threatened, then it is reasonable to withold an address and contact details. A family member (or the court if there have been prceedings) can hold those details in case the child isn't returned.

If there has been no such behaviour, I would support a cessation of unsupervised contact.

Works both ways though. The NRP should always know where the RP is living, and their contact telephone nember, for the same reason.

I agree with everyone who says that it is game playing, in many, if not all cases.

What I don't agree with is the reasoning for withholding contact in this situation. If contact is withheld, it is because of the RP feelings, not because the DC's are at risk. Not sharing contact details does not put the DC's at any greater risk than if details are shared. If the NRP is a risk, then the RP should be seeking support from the authorities to reduce/limit the risk legally, not using this as a convenient excuse.

It inconveniences the RP, yes, and it could mean that the NRP is not available to support their DC should it be necessary - but neither parent has the right to know where a DC is when the other parent has care - all be it, there seems no good reason for them not to know.

On the other hand, the DC has the right to maintain contact with their NRP parent when in care of the other

Birdsgottofly, there is very little you can do to "make" someone communicate with you, if they refuse and any attempt to make them results in your children suffering.

Personally, I see things like this happen, and I bend over backwards to accomodate the DCs dad, I would hate for them to feel in anyway responsible, at their young ages, they should be allowed to be children, I try to preserve my childrens innocence and minimise the impact of being children of divorced parents on them.

Very easy for me to say as I have never been in this situation and hope not to be but not giving contact details etc is just game playing. If it's in the children's interests, you do it! I wouldn't be happy sending mine anywhere where they couldn't be reached in an emergency.

Lots of people are saying that they'd want to know where their children would be if 'anyone else' was looking after them. Fair enough, I wouldn't let a friend have my DC without me having a phone number...BUT...

We're not talking about a friend, we're talking about a nr parent, who is your equal as a parent of the DC. I think it's really different. Surely a parent can do as they please as long as their children aren't at risk. They are not under any obligation to tell the RP where they're going or what they are doing or who with.

e.g. if the NR parent wants to leave the dc with someone else (whose contact details they may or may not have), then that's their choice. When the DC are with the NR parent you will probably not know where they are at all times, and why should you? They are with their parent.

Of course having contact details is a good, sensible idea, but it doesn't seem right to withold contact over this.

Regardless of emergencies and being able to contact etc, i think if the NRP is willing to be so difficult, controlling and shady then i would not trust them to behave with best interests towards the child.

Telephone number I'd agree is essential, but when it's another parent [not a friend etc] I don't see there is any need for address, unless there is some grave concern for child's wellbeing whilst with the other parent [in which case why are they allowed unsupervised access?]

My OH's Ex didn't have our address for over a year [until it had to be put on divorce papers] as she is a mentalist and used to turn up at his prev address with the kids, screaming like a fishwife & generally being a tw@t, she quite often drove home from the work the [very] long way round so she could send him stalkerish texts ['I see you're home from work early today' WTF?]. She knew the area we moved to and that it is a nice area, that's all she needed to know but TBH I think she knew damned well where we lived, the kids probably pointed it out as we didn't live a million miles away from their grandparents.

Resident parent or not, either parent should be considered equally capable of taking care of the children, if you trust someone enough to have children with them then you have to trust them enough not to micro manage the time they spend with them, whether you still like them or not; but I guess every case has it's own merits.

if the NRP is willing to be so difficult, controlling and shady then i would not trust them to behave with best interests towards the child.

...but this is not a good enough reason to withhold contact much as I wish it was.

Whether the RP trusts the NRP or not is beside the point in law - the NRP is presumed to be as capable as the RP, and therefore the decisions that either of them make are automatically considered to be reasonable and in the DC's best interests; whether or not the other parent agrees.

It is not an ideal situation but if it there is a valid reason and the children can be contacted, I don't see what the issue is.

The rp can take the children abroad on holiday for 3 weeks and then the nrp would not be able to contact them in an 'emergency' either unless it was via a phone.

my husbands ex tried to use the 'emergency' reason as a way to get our address in court but as we had provided family contact details and a mobile number, the judge disagreed with her.

As i said earlier, it is far from ideal and was just so sad for all involvedl

I dont think one parent would be easier or harder to tract down TBH - Both parents will have their addresses at the school, Both will have employers (if they work) who will have their contact information etc etc -
So I dont buy its ok for one parent to withhold contact but not the other.
Bottom line tho is it is about the children having a right to a full relationship with both parents.
The OP ex may have felt it wasnt right for OP to have these details for any number of reasosn or he could have been all about the control.
We dont know enough details - some may feel the fact he walked away and gave up seeing his children was because he was unable to control OP other may wonder if he was so concerned what OP would want those details for that felt it was better all round to walk away.
Threatening to prevent the other parent seeing the child when you dont get own way is unacceptable in my view and i think their should have been other alternatives. However, as he didnt dispute this and disapeared It is the children who have missed out on 2 involved parents

right read all the replies

i shall clear a few things up

1- he didn't and has not got PR CHILD WAS BORN BEFORE 2003

2- before he moved from his mums which i did have the address for he would often bring ds home a whole day late or not at all and his mum would have to bring him as he would point blank refuse to bring ds back (his mum would have to pretend she was taking him to get sweets and drop him back)

3- if the situation is amicable then i agree address may not be required

4- we had never lived together so i had nothing to go on in terms of how he would look after ds. ( different if you were married before split)

5- i found out the hard way getting family members to mediate just makes maters worse to be honest.

My ex and his parents have not given me their new addresses, I only have a mobile number via my sons phone and nothing for his parents ( they also have regular contact) but at the end of the day the fact they are able to maintain contact is more important. However in an emergency situation I would not be able to contact them so they have to realise that by with holding this information they are in fact not only being pathetic but also putting themselves at a disadvantage. Funnily enough I can see who they might blame in that situation !!!

My DD lives with her Dad. I have a mobile number for him, I know where they live, I do not have the landline number. Fat lot of good the mobile number is as he refuses to answer it!!

Luckily she is 17, but, she needs more pushing in terms of college work. I am the one who has to go to all the school meetings because that is one of the many parts of parenting he has opted out of but he doesn't get the feedback from these meetings.

YADNBU

FWIW when I went to court for removal of jurisdiction and a residence order it was written into the order that my exh had to provide me with contact details of where exh was taking DC11 (well at the time 7 yrs). This was done because exh was a flight risk.

Should probably say that our situation was far from amicable and exh got himself in all sorts of trouble for the way he treated me, and his family.

Totally depends on the history between the parents. No, I wouldn't let my DD go without knowing ex's address because there have been several occasions when he has not returned DD when he should have. There have been many, many occasions when he has not answered his phone when I call and has ignored emails.

I think it definitely depends on the circumstances. I have a 6 year old dd with my ex. We were quite young when she was born and he was always very unreliable. He would see her a few times then we would here nothing from him for 6 months and then do the same again. Last time I saw him dd was 21 months, I invited him to come for her 2nd birthday and he never turned up. We did not hear again from him until she was 6. He has started seeing dd sometimes when she is with her granny. (we both have a great relationship with his family and always stayed in contact, but he was out of contact with his family for several years as well after he stole from them).

Ex has now asked via his brother whether he can take dd out unsupervised. He has not asked me himself, I have no contact details for him. I don't know whether he still has my phone number or remembers my address although he had these in the past, and if there was an emergency dd would want her mum as she has only just got to know him again so would not feel comforted in the same way as she would by me, and he doesn't have PR so would not be able to consent to anything medical etc. And if he feels it would be too awkward to call me to arrange contact who is to say he would not struggle with calling me for the first time in an emergency. My minimum requirements before I would consider unsupervised contact are contact number, address and a conversation to make arrangements first.

On the other hand, my now husband has been an equal parent to both dd and ds and if we split up I would feel more relaxed about knowing his address etc as I trust him, but then he wouldnt withhold his details from me anyway as he is not a twat.

My XP has lived in at least 5 different girlfriend's homes since we split. I have never been allowed to know their addresses, and only once have I had the landline number, and that was after he'd been living there for 6 months.

I am not allowed any contact details apart from XP's mobile phone number, which he chooses when and if to answer.

He has never been denied contact on the basis that he wont share these details.

His excuse? 'It is not my address/landline number to give to you.'

DD was 6 months old when we split, and has been out of my radar many times, and XP has removed DD from my home against my will and threatened to abduct DD too.
I was told by my sol a few years ago that where he takes her (even though it is overnight stays) is of no concern to me, and I have no right to deny contact based on his refusal to disclose where DD is. In the same vein, I have no right to deny contact based on XP leaving DD with new girlfriends whom he has only known a matter of days. It is up to him who he leaves DD with, where he takes her, with whom etc etc.

This may be slightly easier to accept if I trusted XP, which I don't. It seems the law expects you to trust the NRP until something does happen, by which time it could be too late to do anything.