Feel guilty about MIL - is DH being unreasonable?

[TheCountessOlenska]

MIL has had life long problems with anxiety - never sought professional help - but managed ok with everything while she had support from FIL. Very sadly FIL passed away a few years ago, of a horrible illness which obviously didn't help with her mental health at all. Now he has gone she has more or less retreated from the world outside her home (she doesn't drive, doesn't have social life, doesn't have internet, no longer had TV as couldn't cope with change to digital etc).

The year FIL died, we had DD - her first grandchild. We continued to drive the 2 - 3 hours to visit her but this started to become more of a chore for us (i.e travelling with screaming baby in car!). I've never had a problem with this, as I understood she was/is grieving and the idea of travelling to see us on the train was too much for her.

DH, however, feels increasingly let down by her refusal to travel to see us. His attitude is that it is easier for her to get trains and taxis than for us to drive with DD (she really objects to long car journeys!).

She has been to see us on the train twice since DD was born two years ago - both times she has worked herself up into a complete state about it.
We have driven down as much as we can but it is a pain because of DD crying all the way and also it is a four hour plus round trip - we can't stay over easily because there is no double bed and DD co-sleeps with us.
Anyway, DH has told her that it is her "turn" to come and see us on the train.

Today I got a letter from her (unusual in itself) and she has put that in it that DH had told her that she has to come up, and that she has had "three sleepless nights already at the thought of it" . . . God, I feel really guilty now. I am going to say to DH that I think we should drive down again - but I know he will say no, she has to come to us.

Should we force her to face her fears and come on the train, not pander to the anxiety problems? Or for the sake of DD seeing her grandma should we just keep driving down??

everlong - yes maybe it's time we at least tried to speak to her about it.

Oh yes, I agree it's worth a try. This could be the impetus.

All I know is that if I had to get on a train to visit someone, then I would never see them again. I have (well not quite a phobia I don't think) problems with trains, and I would never in a million years get on one alone. I feel for you MiL, it must be awful for her to be torn between something that is obviously an ordeal, and seeing her granddaughter.
I can't see how letting yourself be dictated to by a child re "long journeys" is going to help either - what happens if you ever have to go somewhere? You can't let a baby/toddler decide where you do and don't go.
The technology thing is just a sidetrack - nobody has to have a TV or a mobile phone, it's not obligatory. Why do you/your DH feel so strongly that she must want/need emails and texts, yet refuse to actually take her granddaughter in the flesh to visit her?
I don't think you can force her to get on the train, all that will happen is that she will worry herself sick, and then not come, not see your DD, and be miserable. Your DH will look like a right twat, stopping his daughter seeing her grandma because grandma can't face the train journey? how's that going to look? You can just jump in the car and drive to her house, but she has to screw up her courage, battle her fears, overcome who knows how much mental stress and anguish, and spend hours on shitty public transport...

Could you find a couple of different options and alternate? For example, one month your DH goes on his own and spends a weekend with his mum. Another month one of you goes and brings her back to yours either on the train or by car. And another month you brave the car journey (travel at night if DD might sleep in the car?) and either bring a blow-up bed or stay in a Travelodge.

FWIW I think your DH is being a bit UR. I would suggest that you sit down and try to find a way to get connected again with his mum. The technology stuff can be sorted out quite easily - something that your DH could do if he has a weekend with his mum.

Agoraphobia and Panic

The guy on the video is an Clinical Psychologist - expert on CBT treatment

Whilst I can agree with the posters that are saying you must not force her to visit you, by always visiting her instead you are most definitely making it easier for her not to take any action about her anxiety problems.

Your dh is perhaps thinking of the next 20 years of always visiting her and her never making the journey to you.

Whilst anxiety is a very serious problem and an awful thing to live with, it can be treated, people can get better at things like travelling on their own. However it is difficult for people to do this, and there usually needs to be a pretty big incentive for someone to decide to get treatment and to start doing things that they have avoided for years. Visiting her grandchildren could well be the thing that motivates her to do this, but she won't do this if you always visit her because she won't need to.

Obviously with being recently bereaved, you want to take it gently with her, you certainly can't make her get help or change, but you could nudge her in that direction and support her if she decides to get help.

Anxiety Care website

I had a similiar issue with MIL who is frightened of anything new, any animals, and I don't think she had ever travelled out of the county she lives in. We moved to the other end of the country and she had to face her fears and travel by train to see us.

If I remember rightly both myself and DH accompanied her on the first return trip and DH on the next 2. Now she has no problems travelling to us by train, which is great. When she first came she couldn't get on the tube, now she can travel short distances on her own. She has done amazingly. She is even considering getting a passport and trying the train to Paris. I think putting any kind of pressure on is not a good idea, you need to support her in overcoming her fears.

Although saying that DH had never flown and had a panic attack on his first flight and had to get off before take-off. After attending a Flying without Fear course he set himself the challenge of a very long flight but it was to an amazing destination, so it was the incentive rather than the pressure which enabled him to fly.

I hope you can help her to overcome her fears and come to an arrangement that suits everyone.

Poor woman :( Your DH is BVU.

I agree that she needs to sort out her anxiety problems; but in the meantime, being pressured into doing things that make her feel very uncomfortable and anxious, is only going to make her feel worse - which will cause her to be more anxious etc etc - is a vicious circle.

FWIW, we travel the 4+ hour round trip to see my DM and PIL's with our 5 DD's quite often. Honestly, the more they do it, the easier it gets. My younger DD's sleep half the journey, and the rest they are quite happy with looking out the window really. Its only recently (year or so) since we had a car with DVD players in - is a life saver for older DD's. They managed without it for a long time, but its brilliant for keeping them occupied. By the time they've watched the trailers and then the film, there is only about 20 minutes before we arrive.
I don't know how your DD is with car sickness, but it doesn't seem to affect ours at all - so we plan a mealtime around the journey, and have a picnic in the car. DD's love it, and really breaks the journey up.
If I am driving down by myself (to stay for a few days at DM's) then I will bath DD's and put them in pyjamas, at normal bedtime, and put them in the car with blankets and teddies. Set off about 6.30ish and they are all asleep within 10 minutes - and then transfer easily when we get there.

I do think that your DH is being unreasonable expecting her to drive when she is clearly so anxious about it; and like others have said, I think its important to be gentle and understanding (as you are) about her recent bereavement.

Thanks to those who have offered useful advice!

Just to add, DH isn't a "wanker" or a "twat" - he is someone who lost his beloved father, watched him suffer horrifically at the end, well before time (FIL in his 50s, DH in his 20s). He is an only child so no sibling support.

When his dad died, as I have mentioned, all MIL's support structures were taken away and we have slowly come to realise the extent of her problems - I think DH feels that he has almost lost both parents - if FIL was alive, they would have been driving up every weekend to see DD and to help us with little DIY jobs etc.

MIL doesn't even ring us anymore (another anxiety related issue I think) - DH rings her every week.

Meant to add, so I think DH has been trying a "tough love" approach, which as people have said on this thread, won't help matters - I will speak to him tonight, we will have to drive down.

Also, we haven't missed a visit yet - last time DH drove her to our house and back.

:( I can definitely see why your poor DH is frustrated.

How 'with it' and capable are your MIL's sister/dad? Is there any way that they can do the train journey with your MIL the 1st few times until she gets used to it? Or (as another poster said) could one of you accompany her on the trip until it becomes 'within her comfort level' to do the trip on her own?

Perhaps if you try to see her as a fearful small child (this isn't meant to be offensive in any way to people with mental health problems!) and treat her accordingly - i.e. you wouldn't just tell a child to go on a train etc when they couldn't work out how to get to the train station and would probably just sit and cry on the doorstep... but you might well take them to the train station, buy the ticket with them and see them onto the train, make sure they're comfy and have drinks/snacks/magazine/know where toilet is - then make sure someone is meeting them on the platform at the other end.

Once your MIL has done the trip by train with people a few times, then if your in-laws can do the 'seeing onto the train' bit and you do the 'meeting her at the other end' bit, would that be manageable for her do you think?

Could she move to live close to you? If your DH is an only then the support he needs to provide is only going to increase over time.

I have to say, I think your dh is getting really horrible remarks here about being awful to his mother.

She is a fairly young woman yet, hopefully will live at least another 20 years, is of an age where most people would have several more years of working ahead of them, so she isn't a dotty old lady unable to cope with the modern world. She is a very ill lady with a illness that is crippling her.

Maybe your dh feels that she is doing nothing to help herself. She has never gone to the doctor about her illness, but has she tried to make it more feasible for you all to visit either? Why hasn't she bought a double bed if that is an issue; does she offer money to help with the cost of travel?

I am terrified of flying. Feel I miss out on fun times, and experiences due to that, but within the next few years I expect some of my dc will leave the country and head away in search of work. And I know I will have to drug myself up and get on a bloody plane if I want to stay in their lives. It wouldn't be fair to expect them to always fly to visit me, I will have to do it half the time. It wouldn't be worth it for a two week holiday, but to see my dc, I will put myself through the ordeal.

Your DH is quite wrong to force his mother to travel by train. Encourage her to do so yes, but to essentially issue an ultimatum is rather cruel. I'm an only child who lost both parents by the age of 25 (and I have no other extended family, grandparents etc), and I don't think his loss excuses his behaviour tbh.

Yes, your MIL could benefit from help with her anxiety, maybe going to her GP would be a good first step, but as has been said above pressurising her is not the way forward. It's not like these anxiety issues have arisen just since FILs death, she's had them in various forms for a very long time - ie what you say about not going on hols when your DH was young. These sort of deep-seated issues can't be resolved easily or quickly.

I would in the meantime work on making car journeys more enjoyable for your DD. Both my DSs used to sleep for most of long car journeys (we often used to travel late either at or close to bedtime). I used to sometimes sit in the back with DS1 as he would get upset if he couldn't see me. DVDs are a godsend as they get older - sometimes mine would only watch 10 mins then nod off anyway.

And for when you stay at MILs - blow up mattress. Get a decent one, comfortable enough for a night and can always be used when you have guests yourselves (they pack up small, wont take up much space in the boot when you're driving to MILs).

If you can persuade her to go I think CBT could (eventually) help. What would happen if your DH or DD was having a b'day party, a special school ceremony or somerhing that required her to be in a certain place - do you think she would visit then?

could she move nearer to you

I think your dh is being unreasonable.
I don't want to sound harsh but it all sounds rather pfb to me.
Why on earth can't you travel with one child?????
My dd1 (I have 3 btw) suffered from travel sickness.
I had to stop any journey after about 45 minutes otherwise she threw up in the car.
It didn't stop me going places and she outgrew it.

Everything seems to be centred around how it will upset your dc.
The journey is too stressful, she has to sleep with both of you ect.

I know it is a pain but she is your dh mother.

Having said that she doesw need to try and help herself more. I think you need to encourage her to take small steps to overcome, or at least cope better, with her illness.

I don't think your dh is being unreasonable to want his multi come on the train but he would be being unreasonable to try and force her.

She needs to go to the doctors. 60 is no age at all nowerdays, she could have 30 years of misery left unless she makes steps to changed her life. I say that as an anxiety sufferer, it is miserable but it is treatable.

Your husband needs to realize she has an illness. I am sure she hates being this way. Break up the drive if the child is too distracting. But a futon to sleep on there, or a larger bed.
He can't force her. He is being unreasonable.

I feel so sorry for both your mil and your dh

I agree that it's unfair to 'punish' her for her issues, but I can see why your dh is so frustrated with the situation. If my dm never visited or even rang me I would feel very hurt and that she couldn't be bothered with me, obviously in this situation that's not the case, but I can see why he's trying to force the issue

I hope you can all come to a compromise and your mil can get some help