WIBU to tell my friend that her decorated cakes are not THAT good?

[Lueji]

Says it all, pretty much.

She has just learnt cake decoration and has done a good job, for a beginner. But she is really smug and everyone is treating the cakes like the 8th wonders.

Am I too demanding (perfectionist) and unreasonable if I don't join the chorus of how good they are?
Or should I point out the defects?

Or are most people really useless at cake decorating and are really impressed with any decent effort?

She has just brought in a cake for another friend's daughter and some of the decorations are smudged but it seems that everyone is raving.
Also pointing out that my sis has made much better cakes.

Oh, who am I kidding? I won't tell her, obviously, just need to vent here my frustration over not telling her.

Well OP, as you say, it's better you say it here on mumsnet than to your friend's face.

I agree it can be annoying when people sing their own praises too much. There's no need for false modesty, but also no need for an 'I'm the greatest cake decorator ever' attitude.

YANBU to find it all a bit irritating, but you're also right to keep quiet about it to your friend.

I suppose it's a bit like all these shit singers that go on X Factor whose friends and family tell them they are fantastic and Simon Cowell comes along and wipes the floor with them.

I know someone who has started making cakes and they do look very amateur but I would never tell her because I can see in the months that go by she is improving massively. She's now getting orders from her friends and people she knows. I've tasted her cakes and they are amazing but they just don't look as good as professional ones I've come across. People don't normally order cakes from someone without seeing their work beforehand so smudged cakes or not whoever asked her to bake them was obviously happy and would have known the level of her skills.

I'd leave well alone.

I make and decorate cakes for family birthdays/occasions because I enjoy it and I am good at it, for an amateur! When friends see the cakes I have made for DDs birthday for example I get comments like 'wow, that's so good you could sell them' and that kind of thing.

Now, I know my cakes aren't professional quality and they aren't good enough to go into the cake decorating business but if I was a bit more naive then all the comments I get could go to my head and I might start believing that I am the best cake decorator ever. In truth, I have just practised and learnt to do a few simple techniques that look impressive but actually anyone could do and my cakes look better than the average 'made by mum' cake. People are easily impressed!

I reckon your friend has has let the comments go to her head.

if you're truly supportive of her then why not offer constructive criticism; it'll let you vent a little and maybe help her improve; yes praise is good but it can also be stifling to progress. Just make sure that you still give her praise when it is good and make sure that your comments are fair and one something that she could change; i.e. don't say "I think that's crap" say; "that's really good; I think it could look even better if next time you try this, or practice that better" etc...

She's hardly likely to turn around and say 'actually, they're crap' is she?

Decorating cakes does actually require quite a bit of skill and lots Of practice. I make quite a few cakes for family and friends and I'm ok at it, but I am a perfectionist and I do see faults when others tell me my cakes are 'amazing'. They are not!

I have a friend who vastly over estimates both her cake decorating and baking skills. She has only decorated a few cakes and wants to do it as a business already. There really is no way anyone would pay for her cakes (someone she offered to make them for for free didn't want one) but I would never tell her. I try not to over praise too, but I stick to compliments such as 'wow. I can see you put a lot of time and effort into that' and 'that's lovely' which are actually true.

Just thought I'd add that I work in a creative industry and when I started out six years' ago I wasn't that great at what I do. In fact when I look back at some of the pictures of my earlier work I cringe. However I have got fantastically better over the years and so much so that I won an award last year for best in what I do in my area (North West) although a lot is down to clever marketing on my part. So the same may happen to your friend. Practice makes perfect.

Nobody told me I was fantastic though, I found people were generally honest.

I'm not one for pissing on people's bonfire either so I'd say YABU to be overly critical. However, if someone actually asks for constructive comments in the context of, say, starting a business making cakes then YANBU in pointing out the need to reach a certain standard.

Having said that, don't necessarily expect thanks for it. I'm a photographer and regularly get asked for advice. I recall a rather flawed set of amateur wedding pictures coming my way and when I pointed out that if the snapper wanted to be paid for her work she'd have to start by avoiding red eye (in every picture!) and concentrate on composition, it was not well received.

PS. What I would say is that a lot of people think they can produce expert or professional standard work by sheer chance. It doesn't happen like that. Cake making and photography are both areas which suffer from this assumption.

^ that's true, I know a few people who've bought a fancy camera and now consider themselves to be talented photographers, but DH works in an industry where he knows being a photographer requires much much more than pointing your camera at stuff & pressing a button. But as a hobby, fine, go for it.
I make stuff myself (NOT involving food) and I know full well when it looks crap, people like homemade crap, but if I was paying for someone to make me something it had better be excellent!
dont say anything to her, if she wants to start a business you could suggest she does a professional course, because there's been a ton of cake making companies starting up recently & competition is fierce (probably) and brides, parents & whoever else want professional cakes are demanding!

Maybe I should apply the good and trusted sandwich method I use with students.

Start with a compliment, then make the criticism phrased in a positive way, then finish off with another compliment.

Oh, yes! The bullshit sandwich - never fails!

Evenbetter I'm the same. I make stuff and people I know rave over it. But that's because they can't do it themselves. But compared to other people I know my stuff is average.

I find people aren't very discerning about cakes. I am pretty fussy about cakes myself.

I had a similar problem with a friend who started painting and wanted me to sell her paintings through a gallery I had links with.

She was reasonably talented but portraits of her mum and nephews and her other works were just not saleable in anyway shape or form. In short she was a talented amateur and I had to tell her gently. She took it well and we are still good friends.

I would stay quiet about your friend's cakes unless she is hoping to turn it into a business and as a poster above pointed out cakemaking is a flooded market at the moment.

Lueji, do you have any expertise in cake decorating? If you don't why do you think your criticism would be of any use to her?

Who says "parents are not supposed to give too much praise"!

Poor sheroks

Not sure, fabwoman, but my dd2 (10) - who's a bit of a worrier/perfectionist by nature - recently asked me to stop praising her so much, as she "felt that it wasn't real" (It was, but I know what she meant!). She explained that if she herself wasn't completely happy with it, she didn't believe someone else going on about how great it was. Said that she'd much rather I pointed out something that wasn't quite right - that she'd take it fine as long as I did it kindly. So I'm trying to be more constructive, as I think unqualified praise, all the time - paradoxically - isn't good for her self-esteem.

Yabu. I endured my friends signature stir fries for nearly a decade, until she learnt to cook.
My patience and my polite manners have paid off. She still enjoys cooking for me, only now I get to eat really good food. With really good company too.

Win win situation.

Seriously? It's a cake - who gives a shite??!

at 'signature stir fries'

DH does 'signature bologneise' it is very average

Me and my DP do "signiture curries" seriously, as in it doesn't matter how we try and do them differently , they always taste the same - his are nicer than mine though

I have a couple of friends who I would say are good ameteur cake decorators, but i dont think they could be professional. One of the friends is always blowing her own trumpet and says she will sell her cakes professionally. I wouldn't dream of saying her, actually, your cakes just aint that good. rather let her find out the hardway cos im sick of her telling me how brilliant she is all the time I just wouldnt want to upset her, she will find out for herself. Saying that, i have seen some really ropey "professional" efforts.

I don't like those decorated cakes anyway because they all have sickly sweet icing on them.
and I LIKE cake (far better than chocolate)
give me a womens institute lemon drizzle or sponge any day

About praise for children: www.parentingscience.com/effects-of-praise.html

I suppose I posted initially because she brought a cake for another friend which had some smeared applications. TBH, it didn't look as good as her first efforts and I thought it was a shame because this actually was for someone's birthday.

You really seem to be setting yourself as the authority here. Is the problem that she's interested in other people's opinions apart from yours, or in fact is just enjoying what she's doing without thinking she's in some kind of WI cake competition?

I'd still like to know if you've ever actually decorated a cake.