to think a grammar school is the only option for my DCs...

[secondaryfool]

A bit of background: Wasn't brought up here, neither was DP. In our country there is a system with five different types of secondary schools, depending on how well you achieve at school you go to a grammar school, a comprehensive school etc. Both me and DP went to grammar schools. We are told DCs are very bright, and they are doing very well at school....

Personally, I think primary schools are pretty brilliant in the UK, not so much secondary schools...

We live in a rough area of the country and even at primary school it seems quite normal to use swear words etc. I've found drugs and condoms on on the school premises (not from primary school kids, I hope!, teenagers hang out there in the afternoons) - and this is one of the better schools of the city!

Anyway, I'm not bothered with primary school. The secondary schools though bother me. So many pupils seem to have no respect for teachers, they are called names on a daily basis. Pupils smoke weed like we used to smoke cigarettes, there are seperate entrances and car parks for teachers, they have to swipe a card to enter, for safety reasons. In some schools there are up to seven safety doors you need to go through to be in the actual school. It's like a prison. So alien to me where at our schools anybody can enter any part of the building at any time...

I don't want my children to be influenced by those kind of people, and I know from primary school how much children are influenced by their peers: hair style, clothes, language, interests, video-games, who has already got a mobile and who hasn't, etc. Hopefully, it will be recommended that they go to (state) grammar school (is that how it works, recomendation of teacher?). Don't really want them to go to a posh public one, no need for that, but a normal school with kids like them who have been brought up with values and morals...

There are some grammar schools up north, dd1 attends one. Can you tell us where you live or which borough and we may be able to help more?

The entrance exams here are set individually by each grammar school in September/October of the last year of primary school they need to pass these exams if they stand a chance of getting in. The exams are not like anything they will be doing at school as the state primary schools are not supposed to teach for them although ours for example has an after school club that does a little prep. Your child therefore does need to be familiar with the exams, they vary from area to area but tend to be Non Verbal Reasoning (NVR), Verbal Reasoning (VR) and Maths some also do an English exam.

You can get a few past papers from the schools and various books from bookshops/online. If you are in a grammar school area you'll find lots of people will send their dc's to a tutor. Tutors get booked up years in advance, I booked my DS who was in year 3 in for next year when he'll be in year 5 and he's only on the waiting list!

You also need to have a good look at the grammar school criteria some will ask for a pass and then distance from the school or you have to live in a catchment area. Some ie the super selectives will just take the top marks, so if they have 150 places they take the top 150 pupils based on exam marks.

However having said all of that I think you should go and look at some high schools or comprehensives. I know that they used to look terrifying to me when my dc's were younger but as I now have one in secondary and two in the later years of primary I can see that they aren't as bad as they look. All secondary schools have issues with drugs regardless from highly regarded independents to failing schools for no other reason than they are full of teenagers. Teenagers by their very nature will push boundaries and for some that means dabbling in drugs. Of course none of us want that for our children so you need to ensure that how you bring them up at home wins through.

Most teens are utterly charming, they can look scary but they are pussycats.

What LEA do you live in?

I am taking you at face value- although it is a little hard.

I can see where you are coming from tbh.

My son has AS which makes him far too vulnerable to bullies in the average comp near me. However only the top 5% get places in the neighbouring borough grammer school as it is so selective - a place isn't guaranteed.

My solution - move to a part of the country where "please & thank you" are still a part of every day language for secondary. He'll go to a comprehensive but in an area with a far lower feral savages ration.

I agree that you should visit your LEA's website to enable you to be well informed about process and choice. I am perplexed though as to why you children alone seem to deserve better than others. Many many children are raised with values and morals but there are not enough places at local grammar schools for them all.

I agree that you should visit your LEA's website to enable you to be well informed about process and choice. I am perplexed though as to why you children alone seem to deserve better than others. Many many children are raised with values and morals but there are not enough places at local grammar schools for them all.

You need to do your research. It's quite clear that you don't know how the admissions system works and it's quite possible that your children will be allocated an undersubscribed school if you haven't followed the correct procedure.

sorry to tell you this but even grammar schools have pupils who swear, smoke, take drugs, and drink - even the posh private ones.

re "primary being brilliant, secondary not so.... " depends where you live, you can't make such a sweeping statement based on your area.

Drug-taking isn't limited to 'rough' schools - in fact it can be rife in posh schools where pupils have more money to spend...

We had bike sheds at my grammar rather than pupils car parks. Iirc correctly the bike sheds, and in particular the area behind the bike sheds, was very well used.

No, entry to grammar schools is not on teacher recommendation, but on the 11+ exam, which is designed to test intelligence / academic ability.
Intelligence is not dependent on values, upbringing, behaviour etc, so although grammar schools will cater for the top 25% of ability it offers no guarantees re condom use in playgrounds.
Good luck.

Lol when I was at my (rough) secondary school I was friends with a fair few people from the grammar schools in my town. They had the best drugs (never, ever partook myself- I hate them) and had the best, drink fuelled, debauched parties where absolutely anything went! You're in for a shock OP!

As for the school security issues you have, I remember when my primary school in a middle class neighbourhood had an intercom put in, along with new, stronger gates. They became seriously strict about who was allowed in the building. This was within a week of the tragedy at Dunblane.I'm pretty sure every other shool in the area and beyond had the same measures put in place, if they didn't have them already.

Good luck at getting them in.

Round our way those with the money take their children out of state school in year 4 - so they can get 18 months of private education, 11+ booster classes (in school) plus private tuition outside school before they sit the grammar school exams.

May well not be so competitive where you are.

Bournemouth and Poole would class as having several within a 10 mile radius. Definitely not all that rough though!

We had security code doors at my grammar in the 90s. It was so the teachers could concentrate on teaching rather than checking who was wandering around the site. And there's no way basic administration could be done by one receptionist, there were nigh on 1000 girls at that school to keep track of!

I believe how hard it is for you to understand, OP (another foreigner here).

Like others said, security measures go back to the tragedy at Dunblaine. Arguably overkill measures, but the British are a very risk-adverse society.

Tell us the first 3-4 letters of your postcode & I expect folk here will look up secondary options in your area.

Of course I know that taking drugs has become part of English culture and that grammar school pupils take them as well, but it is a fact that the "rougher" the school/area the more drugs are taken, so going to a grammar school means less exposure...

"but on the 11+ exam, which is designed to test intelligence / academic ability.
Intelligence is not dependent on values, upbringing, behaviour etc"

So the fact that most grammar schools have a disproportionate number of children from private schools - that's because children at private schools are just intrinsically more intelligent and have more academic ability than children from similar families at state schools?

It doesn't you know. Generally speaking grammar school kids have more money and so can buy more drugs.

YABU if you think grammar school kids don't smoke weed and never swear.

Ok, it's Bradford.

Actually, most teenagers in most European countries have access to drugs. It's not an exclusively English trait

I think you need to find out from the LEA what secondary schools are around and what the procedure is for applying.

Gradford Grammar seems to be a private school now.

It's more like top 5-10%, depending upon where you live.

DDs both go to grammar schools. The education is excellent, however they still smoke, take drugs and have sex at an unreasonably early age. They're the same kids, from the same area as the local comps, just a bit smarter than the average bear.

A grammar won't solve/remove those aspects of life for you.

Bradford Grammer even

Shagmund - no - but then if the system worked properley then there ...oh, wtf, I was being ironic. Of course what everyone WANTS is to be separated from people they don't like so....oh, never mind.

I think my MN days are over.