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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

in in thinking that being the national average isn't something that one should aim for?

93 replies

Pusheed · 04/03/2012 00:58

In another thread the OP asked whether DC needed tutoring. Various MNetters posted that the DC was sligtly ahead of the national average for that age group and that the OP shouldn't be worrying.

I want my DCs to go to a good university and from there, to get a good job. That isn't going to happen if they aim to be at the national average.

If you are being operated upon would you be happy with your surgeon being 'average'? If you were a soldier going into battle woul you want your leader to be 'average'? etc etc etc.

There is nothing wrong with being 'average'. We all can't be brain surgeons or nuclear physicists but at the same time why do we have to settle for being average?

OP posts:
TalkinPeace2 · 04/03/2012 16:15

Dinosaurs
luckily that is fading - league tables have created ONE good thing
DD and her fellow 'geek girls' are celebrated for the fact that they set a benchmark higher than the teachers would have done
and thanks to setting in all decent comps
the bright kids get to reinforce each others beliefs
and the kids who make it to world to 100 unis are celebrated in the school newsletter
as are the athletes
and artists

Mrsjay · 04/03/2012 16:30

there is nothing wrong in trying to get your child a bit of extra help if you feel they need it even if they are above average , If a parent thinks they are struggiling and can do better then why not , Although that extra help doesnt mean they will get into a good uni and have an amazing career but there is no harm in trying to help them along the way ,

I never looked at national targets for my Children and i just judged where they were , Im a bit thick and tbh no coaching or tuition wouldve helped me at school with the subjects i was rubbish at so I think we have to weigh up the pros and cons of it , Dd2 has LD and needs a hand at school but she is enthusiastic and tries hard so i think i need to be realistic and see that is all she can do even with extra help sometmes it just doesnt stick ,

troisgarcons · 04/03/2012 16:33

No-one pays them upfront. You get a loan to pay for them, Which is then taken out of your salary only after you earn £21,000 or above

No (decent) parent with means would allow that mill stone round their childs neck and subsidises for all they can, this reducing loan burden.

CupOfBrownJoy · 04/03/2012 16:36

This isn't the first thread that Pushy Pusheed has started recently containing rather stupid inflammatory views.

Ignore....

Ephiny · 04/03/2012 16:36

I think you're confusing two different things. Of course it's fine to aim for well above average and to achieve at a high level if you can. But people are also right to say that if your child is already above average, you probably don't need to be actually worried about their academic progress.

How does not worrying about a slightly above average child translate into saying that no one should aim higher than average?

TalkinPeace2 · 04/03/2012 16:43

troisgarcons
Student "debt" is not "debt" in the conventional sense.
It is not repayable if your earnings drop
It is not counted when taking on a mortgage other than as a reduction in income
It is written off without recourse after 30 years

Well advised well heeled parents will be telling their children to max it out
only the nouveau parents will consider it a debt worth paying if they can get a better rate elsewhere

we finished paying DHs student loan this january - having let it sit at negative interest rates (yes really) for a couple of years as tax wise it was deeply beneficial

Original poster
Pusheed · 05/03/2012 11:53

*This isn't the first thread that Pushy Pusheed has started recently containing rather stupid inflammatory views.

Ignore....*

And yet, here you are, posting to the thread Confused

Why is it stupid and/or inflammatory? I wouldn't say it to a child's face (credit me with some sensitivity) but the reality is that the national average isn't very high.

OP posts:
Original poster
Pusheed · 05/03/2012 11:59

.... Alternatively, instead of starting "stupid inflammatory" threads I can go on about some old guy at the supermarket checkout Q or I can whinge about DP not bring me a cup of tea in bed on my birthday but we already have enough of those posters and those threads were getting a bit boring

OP posts:
WibblyBibble · 05/03/2012 11:59

I'm academically way above average (oxbridge degree and all that shite). I can't get a job and am a single parent. Frankly I'd rather my kids got 5 gcses and had a nice life than that they turned out like me. Not everyone is going to be a surgeon, anyway, and those who are genuinely bright enough to do medicine will manage it without tutoring (as they currently do; lots of kids from poor state schools go on to study medicine and not all kids from poncy private schools are capable).

Fluffy1234 · 05/03/2012 12:38

I would be a bit disappointed if my children were average at school. My husband and I both went to university from state schools and I passed the 11plus without any tutoring or extra help so I think it's natural to want your children to do at least as well or better than yourselves.

vess · 05/03/2012 12:46

Why do people assume that 'average' in primary school means being 'average' later in life?

OrmIrian · 05/03/2012 12:49

" Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, Or what's a heaven for"

Alternatively why set kids up for a fall? Some children are simply not going to get to university, and indeed would have no use for a degree in the career they want to follow. Why push them when they are not going to get there. Some children will get to uni and will succeed at the top level - they need encouraging because they stand a good chance of acheiving their aims.

Bramshott · 05/03/2012 12:55

But in terms of tutoring for children, surely that's only worth doing if there's a problem that needs fixing (or an eleven plus that needs passing)? Why would you pile that extra pressure on a DC if you didn't need to?

Hebiegebies · 05/03/2012 12:59

The day my son got an average level for his English at KS2 STATS was one of the happiest days of my life, he had no outside tuition, but fantastic extra help form his school to get there.
There is no way I'd have pushed him through extra tuition to get a better grade, I wanted him to have a childhood
If he gets into uni great, if not, but pushing him will never help IMO. He is who he is, he's not a mini version of me

Original poster
Pusheed · 05/03/2012 14:29

"why set kids up for a fall? Some children are simply not going to get to university"

In year 5 I was discussing prepping DD for the 11+ with a mum and she said that she wasn't going to bother because her DD wasn't academic and had no chance of passing. WTF. Putting aside the fact that the DD was doing better than mine at school, how can someone label their child as being not academic at the age of 10?

I failed the 11+ and went to the local 'bog standard' comp instead of the shinny GS. At about 13 things finally 'clicked' and I went onto university and a well paid job at the end of it. I guess I was a late bloomer :)

It is a good thing my parents didn't take the attitude that since I couldn't pass the 11+ I should set my sights lower.

OP posts:
MoreBeta · 05/03/2012 14:34

Problem is the 'national average' of academic achievement in the UK is too low. We took our children out of a school that only aimed to meet the 'national average'. I would go so far as to say the school actually held both of our children back because they were above average.

OrmIrian · 05/03/2012 14:40

"It is a good thing my parents didn't take the attitude that since I couldn't pass the 11+ I should set my sights lower"

But how did your parents setting their sights anywhere make a difference. You went to a bs comp and did well. Isn't that what so many of us a re saying. That it is possible to do well at a bs comp?

In fact I wouldn't advocate any such judgements at the age of 11. That is part of the problem and it is why no-one should be labelled a 'success' or a 'failure' when they are still so very young.

But saying 'my child is going to Oxford' at age 13 when they clearly have no interest or ability to do so is just bloody stupid.

pickledsiblings · 05/03/2012 14:48

MoreBeta, you are absolutely right.

At our local Middle school, working at the 'national average' warrants a 'good' in their reporting system Shock.

cory · 05/03/2012 22:04

Fluffy1234 Mon 05-Mar-12 12:38:24
"I would be a bit disappointed if my children were average at school. My husband and I both went to university from state schools and I passed the 11plus without any tutoring or extra help so I think it's natural to want your children to do at least as well or better than yourselves."

A natural enough reaction, but it is not nice to be the child who knows he is a disappoinment to his parents.

juniper904 · 06/03/2012 00:47

On the original thread, we were reassuring a mother who was concerned that her DC was below the expected levels.

She didn't know what the expected levels were, so was glad (I think) to know that her DC's achievements weren't a cause for concern.

No teacher worth their salt would accept the average level as being ok for all. Each child is an individual (vomit) and should make the best progress available to them, not just reach the line and then plateau.

I am also a strong believer in the fact that children should be children for as long as possible. They have their entire lives to be stressed and hate the world. Primary years should be happy and carefree, IMO.

whisper9 · 06/03/2012 05:20

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CogitoErgoSometimes · 06/03/2012 06:07

YANBU. Being the mother of a lazy little bugger child that would be quite happy doing the bare minimum or average, I have to give him a regular shove by setting the expectations higher. His teachers are doing the same thing. However, I think you have to judge each child on their own merits rather than apply blanket methods. Bright but lazy children like my DS benefit from being stretched. Hard-working children who aren't all that bright in the first place only become anxious if pushed.

LastSummer · 06/03/2012 06:14

you may not LIKE what they choose, but if you support rather than condemn, they will excel and become above average in their field (even if it is a field of one rather than one thousand)

Nicely put, Talkin, but please forgive your mum for not being quite so wise!

callmemrs · 06/03/2012 06:40

'in year 5 I was discussing prepping dd for the 11+ and I discussed it with another mum who wasn't going to bother, despite the fact that her dd was doing better than mine at school'.

Therein lies your answer op.

Not everyone feels the need to hothouse their child, and pay for private tuition to help them jump through hoops to achieve. Some parents rely on their child's own natural ability and motivation.

You sound like the sort of parent who in a few years will be filling in your dds UCAS form and telling her where she must apply to university and which subject to do. And then hovering over her for her entire degree and shoehorning her into what you feel is a 'decent' career.

It's nothing to do with aiming for the average. Your op makes it plain you can't allow your children to make their own way in life in the way that will be fulfilling to THEM

CogitoErgoSometimes · 06/03/2012 07:07

"allow your children to make their own way in life in the way that will be fulfilling to THEM"

With respect, they don't know age 8, 9 or 10 what fulfilling is. Their horizons are usually too narrow and they don't know what we know as adults - which is that loving what you do is important, but it helps if it pays the bills as well. So it doesn't mean forcing them down a particular path, but it also means keeping their options open, not closing them down to opportunities. Saying a bright kid 'isn't academic' age 11 is closing down their opportunities far too early.