To think Uni students are a right moaning pita compared to when I went

[ohtobemoanproof]

Im a lecturer.

When I went to University-we went to the lectures, took notes from the board or overheads, went home, studied, did the exams etc, got our marks whenever they were ready and went away. No bothering the lecturers ( ever), no having their emails and demanding appointments, no arguing the toss over coursework marks, no moaning and complaining.

Now, I feel almost "bullied" by some of the students (not high fee payers, in fact some are on a bursary). They constantly moan (about everything, not just me in case anyone suggests its my module leadership in question), are always at the door, send email critiques about the quality of highly appraised visiting expert speakers, threaten to sue if coursework is returned a day later than you suggest it will be back, blame the lecturer if they get lower marks than expected, demand formal public apologies if they dont receive central messages about "one off" timetable changes, bitch if lecture notes aren't on module spaces a week before the lecture is held...it goes on. Bloody nightmare.

Aibu to think this is a new breed and we just weren't like that "in my day".

sniffs and has some more gin

What where my milk said

It would be slightly less galling IMHO if they could at least construct a sentence correctly

mrswoodentop - So how do students afford to go whose parents can't or won't pay for them?

I think the answer is if your parents are really poor then you are eligible for help,grants bursaries,waivers etc however for the people just above that level there is a real problem because they are not eligible for help but in reality their parents really can't afford to help either

.These are the people who will just not be able to afford university any more.

There are two really good threads at the moment on how people are funding higher education in the Further Education section

I find threads like this a bit depressing - I've got two DD's at university who work hard and trying to make the most of the experience. I did take them to university open days but that's because that's the way it is these days not because of any dreadful flaw in their personalities and they don't have much money because we as parents are expected to top up what they can borrow. I always got the feeling that some lecturers didn't really like students when I was at university but that students are part of the deal so they got on with it. Nice to see that students appear to be actively despised now.

@webwiz Oh had you not realised that the under 35s are the utter scum of the earth and a total utter drain on society. Not only are they mad bad and dangerous to know, they are also obv vv thick in comparison to the generation that invented sub-prime and lazy in comparison to a generation that expect to retire at 60.

Did you not realise?

tardis - nobody is saying they are thick or lazy. But things have changed - some things better and some worse. And some of those things are as a result of changes my generation made to stuff like education.

And retire at 60!!! I wish. I am 47 and my state retirement age is 47. I have a public sector pension and won't be able to get that until state retirement age either. I expect it to be much older than 47 by the time I get there.

@lesley Do you mean 67? I am being faceitous, but there is a general, totally irony free winge that goes on about 'kids today' by a generation who are far from perfect themselves.

I do realise that public sector employees will have to work longer than is potentially advisable.

Yes I mean 67

I would love to retire at 47. Tempted to post a thread now in AIBU complaining that I won't be able to retire until I am 47 ffs

Yes there is lots of whinges about kids today and often unfairly. But it does go both ways. I am totally fed up of reading comments about how older people have had it so easy in comparison to kids today. IMO some things are easier and some things harder and these types of posts tend to generalise from people the poster knows and be extended across a whole generation.

For example, my parents house cost £20k when they bought it and now would cost £800k - people my parents age have no idea how hard it is to buy a house now. Totally ignoring the fact that about a 3rd of people rent, of those who have bought some have lost serious money in the past in previous recessions, bought houses that haven't risen much in value, etc.

And tbh I find it wearing at times. So sorry I can understand why younger people would find the kids today comments wearing.

My Dad did an English degree. He was often the only one in the group (in his TWO lectures a week) who had a read the book. He was paid to go to university effectively because he had a grant. 1 year was cheaper than 1 term at his public school (though this may still be the case!) This was in the 70s. So OPs experience is not the entire experience of that generation.

When I was uni (a few years ago) were also expected to answer emails within a day, it was part of an agreement with the staff that you would look at them a couple of times a day. I was given my tutor's home phone number and TOLD to ring after 6pm! I agree this should not be the case but it is hardly surprising that students think this is the 'done thing' when this is basically what they are told. If students are told room and time changes an hour before their lectures and then told off for not answering, it isnt surprising they expect their lecturers to reply to emails with a day.

If there is a change in attitude it is definitely the fact we are paying for it. I'm sorry but I think students have every right to demand more support when a decade ago people got it for free and now they pay 9 grand a year. Its ridiculous.

@Lesley Do you think it is becuase previous genrations were less integrated? Ie people went to uni from private and grammer schools and never mixed with the rest of society.

My mum (50 btw) is a teacher and now a lecturer and said she was truly shocked when she started teaching by how low the intellect was among some children and their parents as she never came across them until she was a teacher. She was only educated with the top 10% intellectually. Becuase she was grammer rather than private she had considered this 'the norm'.

People who went into academia at the same time would not have come across people from less intellectuall/academic backgrounds until the labour gov insisted on sending 50% of people to uni about 10 years ago.

I found having to be polite about people who were obv less intelligent at uni but insisting they were on the same level as me hard, despite having gone to relatively diverse, mixed comps.

I am half way through my second year at University and this academic year my course have had one - yes ONE piece of work marked and returned. We are still waiting for all the remaining assessments from last semester's 3 modules to be moderated.

Our new course leader was removed from our course last semester because it became apparent she was completely unqualified to teach our subject. We would arrive for our 3 hour weekly contact time with her and were immediately sent off to the library for the rest of the session to "do some independent research - this will help build up your study skills!". No shit Sherlock . After 5 weeks of this we had to make a formal complaint.

tardis - Interesting observation...perhaps. I come from a very poor background, but I went to uni I was shocked at the lack of knowledge amongst some students about how others live. Not intelligence, just everyday poverty and stuff like that.

I would have found it very wearing dealing with people who were less intelligent in that context as well.

I'm in second year of second degree. I am surprised at the amount of 'scaffolding' you get for assignments. First degree was assignment title, reading list, lecture - get on with it.

What scaffolding do you get?

My students get quite a bit. Specific lecture sessions on the coursework, generic feedback before hand in (based on last year and "usual" mistakes), drafts reviewed with rewrite comments etc.

Also core text chapters and core readings placed on moodle so the students dont have to find it themselves.

LittleAlbert - I have done some Master's study recently and I was horrified that people on the course emailed drafts to the tutor and got feedback before submission. Nobody would have dreamt of doing this on my undergraduate degree course (and it wasn't THAT long ago!). Of course, they all got great marks because they'd written exactly what they were told to, whereas the idiots who did it the old fashioned way got an average of 10% less. We got mark schemes as well, so basically you get rewarded for doing exactly what the criteria says. You used to (well, on an English degree anyway) get better marks if you did something unexpected and original. Now you get the grades for doing it completely by the book. My Master's is unfinished and I doubt I will do the rest as it completely demoralised me and undermined my faith in the standard of higher education (not blaming lecturers AT ALL for this, by the way.)

That is a lot laptopdancer and very different to the past.

I have also been gobsmacked by fellow students who submit drafts (plural!) of essays to lecturers. Is it an age thing? I'm 51 and would regard doing this as an admission that I didn't understand the assignment.

Ahem. We read a draft of every single piece of coursework, on the grounds, I think, that it's what they'd get at Oxbridge tutorials. (Frankly I've always wondered why supposedly the best and cleverest students in the country are the recipients of the most babying hand-holding, but there you have it).

Okay. Didn't happen at my more ordinary uni in the 80's. No idea if it happened at oxbridge then. If it did I guess it is fairer for everyone to have this advantage.

Yes, it's always happened at Oxbridge; the crucial difference though is that tutorial essays don't count for you degree. Whereas we read the drafts of wrk that does count (lucky buggers).

Okay that isn't good