To think Uni students are a right moaning pita compared to when I went

[ohtobemoanproof]

Im a lecturer.

When I went to University-we went to the lectures, took notes from the board or overheads, went home, studied, did the exams etc, got our marks whenever they were ready and went away. No bothering the lecturers ( ever), no having their emails and demanding appointments, no arguing the toss over coursework marks, no moaning and complaining.

Now, I feel almost "bullied" by some of the students (not high fee payers, in fact some are on a bursary). They constantly moan (about everything, not just me in case anyone suggests its my module leadership in question), are always at the door, send email critiques about the quality of highly appraised visiting expert speakers, threaten to sue if coursework is returned a day later than you suggest it will be back, blame the lecturer if they get lower marks than expected, demand formal public apologies if they dont receive central messages about "one off" timetable changes, bitch if lecture notes aren't on module spaces a week before the lecture is held...it goes on. Bloody nightmare.

Aibu to think this is a new breed and we just weren't like that "in my day".

sniffs and has some more gin

I am a senior lecturer too...
I find on the whole I agree with the OP, sadly. The thing is that complaints aren't kept to being aimed at the poorly performing staff, they are across the board.
I try to hard to have notes up, (I too have visiting consultants who don't give me their notes until last minute), turn over coursework and do as much as I can but even one glitch means I will get someone complaining.

I put detailed notes on and everyone attends my lectures by the way, because I may not be the best administrator but I'm a damn good lecturer.

Students don't know what we are up against as lecturers. I have been in this job for 6 years and didn't have a work computer for 3 of those. I have never recieved a printer. Maybe they might understand why I'm not so forthcoming with the handouts.
Then again why should they care.

Its only going to get worse. Students will be paying an arm and a leg and many of them might as well burn the money for all the use the degree will do for them.
That is no disrespect to the tutors, how many actually use their degree in their work life.
But tutors are going to have to pull it together because they will be working in a service industry which will by default become demanding due to the stupidly high costs.

fred I suspect the OP was being "ironic" when they used the the "critiqued".

But they might not have the skills to critique the speaker. There are a few elements to a good speaker.

1. Ability to entertain., be funny and engaging. Absolutely thsi is easily critiquable.

1. Able to give good clear info in an easy to understand way. A speaker may do this, but a student may not think this has been done for a whole host of reasons including the student not listening properly, or most commonly the student not having the foundation of understanding to understand this lecture - so maybe not having raed enough or missed previous lectures.

1. Able to make people think and see a subject or issue in a different way. A student has to be intelligent enough to do this, but also open and willing in that lecture to look at things differently.

stranded I think most lecturers would be more than happy to speak to students about their lectures and content. Its the complaints about administrative details that I guess are the problem. I have no control over the room, the temperature or what your finances are like but I am more than happy to explain coursework or academic content.

laptopdancer But you can presumably say "complaints about the room, my lack of printer should be directed to the responsible person" - if you are the tutor, then you are the first line of complaint, I can't see why you would think otherwise. The student is going to know you can't hand out notes because you don't have a printer until you tell them.

It's annoyed me a bit that a few people smugly have said "oh we wrote our own notes!" as if people now don't do that because we receive lecture powerpoints?

Also I really have to take exception to Pedallleur 's (I think?) comment about 90% of lecturers working at home on a Friday.

I don't teach today - not my choice, just how the timetable works out - and I have been working at home at my kitchen table today since 7.30am. I logged off last night after 11.30pm.

Yes, I have checked MN for a couple of 15-min breaks but I also haven't had a lunchbreak. I will work both weekend days. This is normal in my dept (I actually, honest to God, have a colleague who during term doesn't sleep on Monday nights and stays up to mark. I seriously don't know how he doesn't have enormous health problems.)

By contrast, most university administrators work 8.30-5, 5 days a week. Not all, but most. They take bank holidays. They don't work New Year's Day. Etc.

I'm not bitter - we do a different job and we do get paid better by and large - but I get really sick of the idea that if you are not actually teaching, you are not working. You do know that doing research is a substantial part of the job, right? It is actually in our contracts, it's not just some hobby, and it does actually bring money in. We can get fired if we don't produce it, you know?

/rant over/

crashdoll think there is a confusion here between lecture notes and lecture PowerPoints. I give my students ppts. I don't give them my notes, that is, what I actually said in the lecture. I think that is the mix-up.

Anyways, I am actually going to get back to work now, honest!!!

I wasn't aware many people got actual notes. I assumed they got powerpoints (or similar) and the lecturer speaks on what s/he knows. Do many lectures have a script? Well, not a script but you know what I mean!

• really I am working between all this!!!

It depends on individual practice. I lecture with bullet points to remind me of the specific points I want to make. Some colleagues have word by word scripts. I know others who just go in with it all in their heads. Depends on your style: I tend to be making arguments rather than just giving info so it does matter that things stay on target - I can't afford to ramble or miss a point out.

Suspect this is largely dependent on subject, too - I imagine scientists have many more graphs etc.

Of course you take your own notes, the pre-released notes are the power point slides. Because the overhead projector is not working. And if you turn up without them, you get sarcastic sniping about being unprepared from the speaker, despite them being unavailable until the 9am on the morning of the 10am lecture and you've just done an hour and a half's drive to get there. I wouldn't have given a monkeys if they just didn't provide them, but providing them at the very last minute and expecting us to be able to hover over the computers and printers to get them in time was unreasonable. None of this was an issue on my undergrad degree at all. A small, well run uni where people had grace with each other because we knew each others faces. But my masters at a sprawling metropolitan uni was a joke. Then I did the LPC at the same uni because it was cheap, and had a great experience. It really was just the tutors on the masters that made it crap and stressful. My LPC overlapped my LLM by 3 months, and seeing what was going on meant that a couple of my LPC tutors intervened at the appeal to ensure that I was allowed to graduate the masters program. It was that badly run, but the worst offenders still run it.

What works well is when lecturers give the students the notes but then mark accordingly I had an excellent lecturer like this - one of those very mild mannered people who are nevertheless sharp as anything and can suddenly catch you out. He provided the most comprehensive notes I've ever had (very tricky module) but then marked to much higher standards than anyone else. You only got points for material that wasn't on the notes.

A few other lecturers have done this and it's a good compromise IMO as the lazy students scrape a pass and the rest of us who work get differentiated marks.

I think some of you have forgotten what it was like. I used to be a lecturer. As a student, I did complain, I did argue the toss on marks, I did demand appointments and at least a reading list in advance. As a lecturer, I provided what was necessary to ensure my course ran smoothly, attendance was reasonable and coursework back on time.

As for bursury/fee paying students, are we at Victorian public school and looking down on the scholarship students?

I kicked up merry hell as a student in the days before fees. But only if i thought it was justified (not simply because I needed the notes). So did others on my course. It might help that I am not particularly over-awed by senior academics.

Now I'm a lecturer and I don't mind the intrusion, although not if people can't be bothered. I do respect the fact that they are going to complain or expect more if they're paying. 4am emails are just part of my job-description (although I don't have to answer at 4am).

I should add that some of my colleagues have been known to put obvious mistakes in the notes they produce to sort out those who haven't done the reading.

I wonder if those who kicked up merry hell are of a certain age. I never did and am a bit long in the tooth so went to Uni back in the early 80's. As the OP and others have mentioned, we didnt go near the lecturers. In fact we didnt even have module leaders or module handbooks etc...you found out the assessment etc in the first lecture.

Oh and I will add re note taking.
I often lecture and notice that quite a few of the students arent taking any notes at all. They just use their powerpoint slides (or tape me, which I hate)

If you don't mind me asking laptopdancer, why do you dislike students taping lectures? I have always taped mine as I have a minor physical disability that makes proper note-taking impossible so my recorder is by way of student support/DSA. I found, as a by-product, that it made me a better student - I absorbed more by listening the first time around and taking electronic notes when I played the lecture back.

I have noticed more and more students using recorders. There were several in my class but I'm the only one who has any kind of student allowance (I know this as they lump all the special reqs in one room for exams and everyone asks where I've gone ). The obvious bad point is that people can use their phones to do this so it can be hard to see who is genuinely recording and who is on the Internet.

I dont object but I dont feel comfortable about being taped. I think the etiquette is to ask first, unless you have a learning plan. I cant put my finger on it but I just don't like it. Im sure there are a lot of things out of context in the recorded version too. Im quite mobile in my lecturing.

Well when I was a student and not paying tuition fees, I was quite happy to see the lecturers during the lecture and then whenever we happened to be in the same pub together and during their minimal office hours.

If I were going now, I'd want to make sure I wasn't wasting my £9k a year.

FWIW, a couple of my friends are university lecturers and whilst some lecturers seem to be moaning about the same things as the OP, the others recognise that when people are making such a huge financial investment in their education/future, that they are getting value for money.

I graduated in 2010 as a mature student (I was 28) and I ranted about this many a time!

The 'normal' students, who were about 6/7 years younger than me, bored the arse off me - they moaned about petty little details, marking not being back dead on time, information not online, etc.

I guessed it was because they had nothing else to worry about. By the way YANBU, they are nobbers

A lot of my course mates were like this. For instance, a lecture was cancelled at the last minute, and they were actually demanding that they get their bus fare back. Bunch of little bollockses. My friend and I hated most of them. He's a lecturer now and still has to deal with them. I pity him.

We were only 4/5 years older than them, but it sure as hell made a difference.

laptopdancer
"Students don't know what we are up against as lecturers. I have been in this job for 6 years and didn't have a work computer for 3 of those. I have never recieved a printer. Maybe they might understand why I'm not so forthcoming with the handouts.
Then again why should they care."

Why should the students care? they are paying between £3000 and £9000 pounds for your time. They are paying for a service.

During my second degree there was one A2 printer in the entire uni, the lecturers DEMANDED that the work be handed in, on time and A2 size.
The local print shops charged an extortionate amount for A2 printing.

I organized my entire course to complain about the costs of the printing and got it changed.

For my money I expect results and responses from lecturers.

I also expect lecturers to expect results and responses from me.

If a uni demands students to adhere to dealines, I expect the lecturers to get my work back with in the uni's own dealines.

For £9000 I would expect a huge amount form the Uni.