To think Uni students are a right moaning pita compared to when I went

[ohtobemoanproof]

Im a lecturer.

When I went to University-we went to the lectures, took notes from the board or overheads, went home, studied, did the exams etc, got our marks whenever they were ready and went away. No bothering the lecturers ( ever), no having their emails and demanding appointments, no arguing the toss over coursework marks, no moaning and complaining.

Now, I feel almost "bullied" by some of the students (not high fee payers, in fact some are on a bursary). They constantly moan (about everything, not just me in case anyone suggests its my module leadership in question), are always at the door, send email critiques about the quality of highly appraised visiting expert speakers, threaten to sue if coursework is returned a day later than you suggest it will be back, blame the lecturer if they get lower marks than expected, demand formal public apologies if they dont receive central messages about "one off" timetable changes, bitch if lecture notes aren't on module spaces a week before the lecture is held...it goes on. Bloody nightmare.

Aibu to think this is a new breed and we just weren't like that "in my day".

sniffs and has some more gin

Wibby, um, have you forgotten the recession of the early '90's? I had a friend with a 2.2 from an ok uni who made over 200 applications for jobs before she got one. This generation aren't the first to be facing a difficult time getting jobs.

Actually i graduated in the middle of the last recession and struggled to get any job. True I didn't have debt...but it is wrong to think this is the first recession we have encountered

Yeah, in my day we took notes. To me that's the huge difference, though I agree with some of the other things - I never would have asked a professor to teach something again or give me notes; I would have borrowed notes from a friend if I missed a class and wanted them. We also had textbooks, which I guess isn't the norm here (crazy, if you ask me, for something as bog standard as calculus or whatever). I think students don't realise that having to put notes online makes the content less flexible (you can't adapt the lecture at all as you're going along, or when you're preparing it, which you have to do much closer to the time than a week!), and can also make the content lower in quality. If I have, say, 6-10 hours of prep time for one or more lectures, and I have to make slides or even just type/format it all for the web, I can easily spend 3+ of those hours formatting the slides. If I could bring in paper notes and work on the board, I can spend that much more time developing interesting examples, making sure the notation is as clear as possible, finding newer, more engaging content, etc. Somehow, we ALL learned stuff without having EVERYTHING posted on the web for us. And taking notes, at least for me, really helped me learn, more than following passively along.

"If he said "next week the topic is X. I'll send the materials in 5 days but in the meantime if you want to go to the library feel free to do some background reading" I'd happily do it. "

Sorry but tbh I am a bit shocked that you need to be told to do some background reading.

lesley I don't need to be told to do some background reading - I need to know the TOPIC I'm supposed to be reading. That was my whole point.

I'm doing law. I can't possibly prepare all human rights law, or all contract law, in a week. I can, however, prepare the bit we will be covering the next week. Am I missing a better solution?

Sorry pastgrace...fair enough

Sorry, it's a bit of a sore point. I turned up to a tutorial the other week - there were 4 people (out of the 20 who were supposed to be there) and I was the only person who had prepared. The other three just sat there in silence went on wikipedia looked through their notes when the tutor attempted to involve them in the discussion. It's rubbish having to rush through everything (even worse when, as this week, I had nothing to do on Monday, Tuesday, or Wednesday but then suddenly get sent all my stuff on Wednesday and Thursday and the tutors want it done for the next day/day after) but it's more rubbish to sit there in painful silence.

I remember one tutor at my uni who would angrily throw people out the seminar if it became clear they hadn't done prep - not physically obviously. I only knew of him having to do it twice. Everyone was too scared not to prepare.

'I remember my six form tutor taking us to the library and showing us how to read around a subject area. If my teacher hadn't shown me I wouldn't have known how to navigate the huge university library which initally intimidated me.'

that's a valuable skill that has been almost totally lost in just 15 years - due to the internet. Thanks to Google we have everything just second away, at our finger tips, but you really have to know how to sort the rubbish from the useful, and I'm sure many students don't do this.

Surely it doesn't matter if they are "on a bursary" or if they're paying, they are customers, and they have ever right to be demanding of the quality of service. How much is reasonable and unreasonable depends entirely on the services your university has said it would provide.

email critiques of guest speakers - surely that's incredibly valuable, I'm pretty surprised you even think to complain about that - YABVU there.

blaming the lecturer for lower marks - almost certainly that's unwarranted unless there actually is something behind it.

I wish they would. It basically turned into the tutor and me chatting anyway, they didn't even bother to make notes. I'm embarrassed to get the same degree as people who make so little effort.

I totally agree about the library.

I wasn't like that at all when I was a student. I was grateful that I was there for free.

Now our students have to pay through the nose they are clients. Clients will state their views.

I'm a first year university student. We usually get the lecture notes the day before. I still take notes as do most other people. Some people like to complain and will always find something to whinge about. Occasionally, the notes aren't put up in time. However, we have a handbook for each module which tells us what the lecture is about and a reading list for that particular topic, so even without the powerpoints, we can still prepare. Yet, some people still moan that they haven't had time to prepare because the notes only went up the night before.

I meant to add that it's only going to get worse. If I was paying £9K, I would demand a good service. Why shouldn't I?

PastGrace If you got the same degree as them - surely they found it either considerably easier than you or you did way more than necessary? Why are you embarrassed to get the same degree as them? If they found it easier - good for them, if you did more than necessary then you could be happy with your interest, or embarrassed at being a mug.

The only problem is if you were oversold by the university about what the course required and its ultimate value, and if that was the case - well being a stronger consumer is what's required.

YANBU. My DH works in university admin and says much the same about some students (others are lovely). And the parents are worse apparently.
He reckons fees are part of the problem, particularly with parents. They can't understand that several thousand a year does not magically guarantee their incurably lazy little sod darling child a first. I briefly lectured/tutored undergraduates in the Irish system, which doesn't have fees, and had no issues at all, so he might be on to something.

I work at a Uni and yes a lot of them are a pita and if they can't get Twatter/Facecloth/Tinternet NOW then their world has ended. But they do work hard particularly in hard subjects like Mech.Eng and Construction and they are paying a lot of money. The flip side is a lot of Unis are badly run, shambolic institutions with lecturers who are put out if they have to do 2 hours of teaching per day. I generalise but on a Friday where I work about 90% of lecturers seem to be 'working from home'

At our uni we all had an introduction session in the library in the 1st week about how to use it. It was very useful.

"email critiques of guest speakers - surely that's incredibly valuable" It depends on whether someone has the skills to do that effectively. This is not a given.

pastg that is shocking. I am a lecturer and the schedules and week-by-week reading lists (topics, exactly what to read for each session) were posted in July 2011. Really.

I then give my students specific questions/ tasks to prepare, a minimum of one week in advance, for each session. It is possible to do this!

Lecture notes I don't do, though. Lecture notes are what I write as the basis for the talk I give. You want to know, you come - you miss, you miss out. I post my PowerPoint slides but they are the 5-6 quotations/ diagrams I will be using and are not much use without hearing what I said about them. My notes would frankly not be much use to students as they say things like 'explain impact of Gordon Riots - 5 min'!

Sorry, I meant my schedules etc for this term. I.e., approx 5 months in advance.

When I worked in the Irish system (Trinity College Dublin to be exact) in the early 2000 lecture notes were unheard of. You turned up and took down your own notes or went without. Some students in the UK system seem to expect a hell of alot of hand-holding.

Early 2000s I should say....doh

revolting its not always possible when you have visting lecturers throughout...bloody nightmare to chase notes for them

RevoltingPeasant can I come to your university please?

Fred the way my degree is structured means that people move into the library a month before exams and stay there for 20 hours cramming just enough for the exam then forget it all. I'm embarrassed because I don't think they deserve a degree for one month's work. I know I don't have to do the work, but I think it's incredibly rude to turn up unprepared, and I'm paying fees to get an education, not to sit in the SU bar. You're right though - they are probably much better at law than I am. I hate my degree - for the majority of the time I'm bored witless and my tutors don't seem to care.

PastGrace your tutors don't care - yet you continue paying your fees without complaint? WHY? Why aren't you complaining? And why aren't you complaining about the fact your university is happy to award degrees for one months work, if you feel that's not an appropriate amount? You appear to have an extremely low opinion of your degree, and the value it has, yet are content to just go along with it? Why?

lesley33 If students don't have the capability to critique a speaker, then you would hope the course is of a sufficient standard that they would fail the course. You have to wonder why the university even accepted such poor quality students on to it.