to think school are overreacting a bit regarding my ds and his toilet training?

[Dazedandalittleconfused]

So basically, my ds is 3 and attends the pre school attached to the local primary. He started in January when he had just turned 3 and was in pullups but we changed him to pants in the half term as we were getting nowhere with toilet training him whilst he was wearing the pullups. The first couple of weeks were a bit of a nightmare, pretty much no progress in half term and lots of wet pants the first week he started back. The school suggested we talk to the health visitor who also spoke to them, and suggested that we take a relaxed attitude to accidents both at home and school as she thought the lack of progress might have been down to him feeling pressurised, so thats what we did and he has come on a lot. He has been going to the toilet at home, telling us more when he needs a wee and usually managing several successes during the day (not for number 2s, but for the minute I am concentrating on getting him dry, all the while scraping out poo from his pants daily whilst smiling through gritted teeth!) so all of this is great in comparison to two weeks ago when he seemingly had no awareness of needing a wee. Now at school he had-at the start of the week- been staying dry all morning, and not actually going to the toilet during the morning session but letting me take him for a wee before we left the school, however yesterday he had one accident and today two accidents, and before I left the school told me that I may need to put him back in pullups for the pre school session. I think that this would be a huge setback for him and had previously been advised by the HV not to put him back into nappies, so I'm bit upset at this as I think he's doing so much better than he was in general. I have offered to stay nearby and come in to change him if it gets too much but the teacher just said we'll have to see how it goes. I just feel that they are making a bigger deal out of this than it is and really don't want him back in nappies! And feel sorry for ds as I think they are still pressurising him at school about it all (he wasn't aloud to sit with the other children during carpet time today as they could see he needed a wee and didn't want him to have another accident there- I do understand that it's not easy for teachers but can't help feeling sorry for my poor boy!)

Sorry about the lack of paragraphs! I have pregnancy brain
There are only 8 children in his class so it's not really a problem with ratio etc but I just don't see why I couldn't just come in and change him if it's too much. Will have a look to see if I can find cloth training pants, unfortunately no Tesco or Asda here though! (I wish there was )

I would move him, although this is probably because it's a major irritation of mine when schools treat their nursery children as they would their older children.

HVs aren't always right. IMO having a child in pants who isn't really ready can cause more harm than good in the long run. It can be upsetting for a child to be having lots of accidents and he might feel very negative about the whole toileting thing. Personally I think if a child is set back by being in pull ups for a an hour or two then, they were never really ready in the first place. We had to put dd1 back in pull ups as she just didn't get it, but with dd2 she was ready and although she had the odd accident, she would get up to go the toilet after she'd gone to bed even though she had her night time pull up on.

I'd put him in pull ups for nursery and places that matter and pants at home. I trained my son that way in the end as he was over 3 and I found the HV all pants suggestions impractical. as it just wasn't working. I did the same for my youngest and he was actually dry very young for a boy. I think its all about reducing stress for you and the child. Its upsetting for him too to have an accident when you are not around which can't be ignored.

Imnotmymum - V funny response (it was meant to be funny, wasn't it?).

Just drives me potty when people pick up others on their writing skills, just as it does if someone's verbal skills are "corrected" in RL.

If he's having a daily poo in his pants, and having (several?) wee "accidents" then he's not exactly close to being toilet trained is he?

If it were me, I'd put him back in nappies/pull ups for a few months and try again. Three is fairly old not to be trained but not exactly unusual (especially for a boy).

I appreciate that your HV suggested otherwise but in the end you have to decide if the cold turkey approach works for your DS, you and other significant caregivers. In this case it doesn't seem to be the case, at least for point 3.

ime I don't think pull ups would be a major set back for now - it isn't always a gradual thing, more of a 'click'. I also don't think you being close by to change him is necessarily the solution - just maybe he isn't fully ready yet. Is there a way of asking the teachers to bring him to the loo at set times and you remind him of what those times are? Eg, before circle time/before break time or whatever way the day is structured.
I think at 3 it can help if you give him a little schedule like that, then over time it will work. But tbh, what I've found works best is to have a week (max!) set aside that you can be with him almost all the time and bring him to the loo regularly enough. I trained mine on holidays for example, and while my dd was similar to your ds and could have been trained in theory a couple of months before, it was all done in a couple of days...

ok, it sounds to me like he is nowhere near ready to be toilet trained, which isnt unusual at 3.

but you are sending him everyday to a place where they clearly have a problem with changing him time after time - which to be fair to the preschool - takes time and effort away from the other children there.

why can you not keep him at home until he is trained? I don't understand why you would keep sending him, when it is not a legal requirement to send him and everyone involved is getting frustrated with the situation

Oh FFS the OP was difficult to read, no one was being arsey about it, but if you want people to read and advise then presenting the info in a readable format would be beneficial no?

OP why did the nursery not take your son if they could see he needed the toilet? That sounds very odd.

If I was running Ofsted, any nursery that didn't want to deal with toilet/nappy issues for 2-4 year olds and insists they are trained would be automatically deemed unsatisfactory.

We were required to have the kids toilet trained before they could go to preschool....

min age was 2.5, ours didn't go til they were 3 and "trained".... attendance at a preschool isn't compulsory, we didn't want to put them through the "accident" phase anywhere other than home.

But if he enjoys nursery, it would be a shame for him to miss out just because of toilet training.

We are just in the process of toilet training ds2, he's 2.6 and has just about got it (I hope). Nursery have been really good with him and have been constantly reminding him to use the potty and praising him when he does it. They have also been very understanding when he has the odd accident. I think their encouragement has been brilliant for him. I would not put him back in pull ups just because he was having accidents there. I would put it down to him getting engrossed in play and would want them to remind him a bit more.

I agree with some others that he isn't anywhere near trained. Reaching way back into memory of training DCs, isn't it easier to start with the poos as they are easier to predict and manage.

I would take it one step at a time, get him clean first then work towards dry, and I would be doing all that at home, forgetting about pre-school for now.

Tricky. I think UABU in expecting the preschool teachers to clean up your ds esp if he is having so many accidents. PT a child should not be a teacher's job!!!! I'd put him back in pull ups for his school sessions. Maybe try again in the summer when you have 7 clear weeks??

Dazed I have 2 pairs of Thomas the Tank Engine training pants that have never been used (although they are out of the packet). You are quite welcome to them and if you PM me your address I will happily stick them in the post to you.

They are the ones that look like pants and have a flannel type lining but between the two layers is waterproof plastic. They are age 2-3 BUT my DS2 is 4.5 now and they still look as if they'd be big on him.

FWIW none of my DCs potty trained early. I think DS2 was nearer 4 than 3 - but he will be old in the school year so I wasn't having to get him perfectly dry to a tight deadline; if he had been an August baby and starting school aged 4 years and 1 month I would have started him earlier.

In your position I would probably shrug and go back to pull ups for the time being and try to crack it again in the Easter Holidays (if you have those where you are!)

I would absolutely agree with the other people about the nursery and their rules etc, except, from what the OP says, he isn't ready, in which case, nappies/pull-ups will not confuse him, they will reassure him. The bowel muscles mature sooner than the bladder muscles, so if he isn't managing that, I would say it's a strong sign that he's not ready.

OP, do you think your ds recognises when he is weeing yet? If so, then him being in a pullup shouldn't matter too much.

Otherwise I would do as halcyondays said and put him in a pair of pants with the pullup on top. At 3 he should be able to tell the teacher when he needs changing. Give them a supply of plastic bags to put wet pants in for you to make it even easier for them.

Sorry, just re-read the OP - if you are 'all the while scraping out poo from his pants daily' he isn't ready.

You say you 'really don't want to go back to nappies' but he can't be ready if he is soiling his pants. The poster who said poo is more predictable is dead right.

As others have said, can you not wait until you can spend sustained time with him?

I have teens and don't usually post on little ones stuff but this makes me fume.
One of my biggest regrets in early parenting was being persuaded by DS1s nursery to persevere in potty training (or whatever you call it)when he was only 3.
In hindsight it was for their convenience and I naively believed they knew best.
He was more like 4 before he was really ready and we had months of anguish and years of accidents. He wasn't dry at night until he was 6 and had regular accidents until he was 9 or 10.

It was never that he didn't try or care he simply didn't have bladder control.If I was doing it again I would leave him in nappies and if the nursery didn't like it I would take him out.

When DS2 came along I was determined to do things differently. Of course he proved the rule that all children are different. At 2.5 he begged me to take off his nappy so he could use the toilet.

it does sound like he isnt quite ready tbh, if i was you i would put him back in the pull ups, maybe just for pre-school and do pants at home if you want?

but if it was me i would go back to pull ups and then wait for the nice weather ie may time and he will probably me much more likely to be ready.

but if you want to continue then the pre-school should let you, my ds4 was a bit late with training and he went to pre-school in a nappy, they would call me if he had a poo, but if he was wet they would deal with it. when he went into pants they dealt with any accidents, i just provided spare clothes, he got pretty good tho, and my boys, well two of them got 'wees' much quicker than they got poos, they were dry for ages in the day but woudl want a nappy back on to poo, or ds2 just pooed in his pants for months, drove me mad but he did just get it one day. i dont know what it was, fear of sitting on the potty or the toilet? he was def aware of pooing as he would go away to do so and then change his pants himself if i didnt get there quick enough, but he wouldnt use the potty.

but i agree he is young, my ds4 trained at 3yrs 5mthsish? one of mine trained at 18mths did it on his own, then the middle two boys were just under 3 and 3 and a bit? they are all different.

when they got it, they all got it quite quickly, within a few days for wees, sometimes took longer for poos ie ds2 and ds4.

But they way I read the OP (and yes, a couple of paragraph breaks would certainly help there ) in this instance, the nursery isn't putting pressure on OP to potty train. They seem OK with changing pull ups, which, let's face it are just overpriced nappies - just not having constant wet/pooey pants.

I've probably posted this before but DD would generally have been described as "quite advanced" physically (rolled at 6 weeks, crawled at 5 months) and intellectually (good compehension and linguistic skills). She was sitting on a potty and weeing reliably at nappy changes from 18 months. I was a bit lazy about it but bit the bullet at 2y 6m and put her into pants for the day, potty at 15 min intervals etc. 27 wees later - some on potty, some in pants - I decided that she just wasn't biologically ready to control her bladder. We both agreed to go back into nappies.

2m later she asked to go into pants - no accidents, totally fine. If they're not ready, they're not ready...

Disagree with posters about the poos. The fact he is not getting poos in potty is not an indicator that he is not ready. I had this problem with DS1. Cracked wees in two weeks but would not do poos in potty at all. He knew when tey were cmng and would sneak off and do in his pants. I dd a lot of research and t s a very common problem. Theory is it is because they think poos re disgusting/dirty and are embarrassed by them. Lods of positive praising of poos. 'Oh DS what a lovely poo, thats a great big one, next time it would be brilliant to do it in the potty. It would look lovely there' open discussion about it. And a book called 'Everybody poos' did the trick.
OP I agree with trying to crack wees first, although start praising poos now.
I would be inclined to take him out of nursery for a couple of weeks though as it seems to be setting him back.

I agree with Bluefergie. Not dong poos in potty or toilet is a common problem.

yes i said the same re poos, two of mine got weeing in the potty within a number of days but took much longer with poos, not sure why but i think its a common problem.