To feel fed up and awkward at being carelessly excluded?

[ViviPru]

We're very close friends with 2 other couples. We see each other socially all the time, go on holidays together and share all of our important occasions. Were all equally as close, they are brilliant friends and I love being in their company.

One of them called today - call him A. He was quite annoyed as he feels he and his DW have been put in a rather awkward position by the other couple. It transpires B&DW have booked a holiday villa for their annual overseas holiday. They have invited A&DW to join them. It is a 2 bed villa. A said it came out of the blue a bit, it wasn't in their plans to holiday in that location at that time of year and they just feel weird about the 4 of them all going away without us. They're undecided as to what to do.

DP and I don't feel especially aggrieved at not being invited over couple A. What does rankle though is the insensitivity of couple B for putting A in an awkward position, and creating a situation that could potentially cause a divide within the group. Im not suggesting they are obliged to invite us, we all go on trips away with people outside of this group of 6. We sometimes go away with couple A when B cant make it and vice versa. Couple A & B have been away together when we can't make it. All fine.

What I would never do though is wittingly create a situation that deliberately excluded either couple. It would just be massively awkward in the run-up and also afterwards when we're all so used to planning and getting excited about trips as a group. It's sometimes tricky on occasion when two of the six cant make it due to other plans, but I can't really imagine how extra weird it will be in these circs.

I know B won't have intended any malice, they are impulsive and just don't think things through. It will have occurred to them that the holiday villa they've booked has a spare room so why not invite another couple?

I know you'll all probably say this is playground and petty, but I really prize these rare, close friendships and it makes me feel unhappy to think they could ever be jeapodised. We're all getting together tomorrow and DP and I are just going to be cool about it and not make any fuss, there's no point, but it's made me feel rather fed up and a bit awkward. AIBU to feel that way?

Haven't got much time to respond,but just wanted to say I don't blame you for feeling hacked off.It is understandable. The other couple have been thoughtless. I think I would probably mention it, in a non confrontational/jokey way (although someone will say that would be passive aggressive!) Don't let it ruin the friendship,though.

I don't actually get the problem....

I suppose my advice would just be to be cool and say how much you hope they all have a good time

I think your ok feeling a pissed off that friends B feel bad when no wrong has been done.

If A friends are impulsive Bs may only have been invited on a impulse it may just have easily been you or dp?
Or something about your working lives may have made them assume you'd be more likely to decline.
Wish them a happy trip and tell them not to worry

I think Honeydragon is right, ViviPru. It rankles with you because this trip has been planned by 'A' and arrangements accepted by 'B', without there being the mitigating factor of you NOT being able to make the trip. I think its unsettled you because it's introduced the notion that there might be some kind of 'preference' or 'pecking order' that has never reared it's ugly head until now.

You're not at all unreasonable to feel the way you do. It's not a particularly nice situation for you because you're going to have to watch yourself in the way that you interract with both couples for fear of spoiling the closeness that you have. All the time there is possibly a feeling that this could be the 'thin end of the wedge'; that the group of couples isn't as close as you'd thought.

You're going to have to bite your lip and say nothing until at least after the trip. Wish 'B' and 'A' bon voyage and hope that next time holidays are being planned that they'll make sure the holiday home is big enough for all of you. In your place, ViviPru, I'd be planning a contingency of what to do and how to deal with it if this isn't just a one-off.

What does your partner feel about it? Is he upset also?

Thanks guys. You've all raised points I hadn't considered (which is why I wanted to post in the first place)

Honey you're right actually, couple B might well have assumed we'd struggle to take the time off, but then that's a large and quite unfair assumption. It does help me square it with myself though. LW that's exactly the crux, the mitigating factor that would ordinarily make it all fine is absent on this occasion.

Couple B have form in that we're all used to having to flux and adapt around their sometimes thoughtless actions, but they're such great company and good friends in so many other ways that they are worth the effort. This latest scenario is the only time this tendency has created a potential divide in the group though.

Interesting you raise the question about my DP,LW he's usually very pragmatic and the voice of reason. He never gets drawn into anything that he deems to be not worth worrying about. On this occasion though, he's really quite narked because he's a bit less tolerant of couple B's insensitivity than I am. He's pissed off they've not considered how any of us might feel, when he knows how I (and couple A) sometimes go to great pains to ensure the balance of equilibrium within in the group.

We will just be the bigger people again and not allow it to become an issue. God it's tiresome being the pacifist sometimes!

Certainly makes it easier to suck up a situation you'd otherwise fester over when you can vent on here :)

Can understand how you feel. Do you think couple A will definitely go?

Are you and your DP usually the 'organisers' among the whole group? DH and I have been in this position with one circle of friends and it can be frustrating when you take care to make sure arrangements suit everyone as well as possible, but then on the rare occasions when someone else does the organising, they don't approach it in the same way.

Hmm, I'm not sure if they will, Eighties. DP took the call and he said that apparently A is just playing it by ear for now and not committed yet as he's changing jobs and things are up in the air with his leave atm anyway. He could have been saying that to spare our feelings though.

Are you and your DP usually the 'organisers' among the whole group?

Hah - yes, and then some. The eagle eyed among you might remember Overseas Wedding Gate? when couple B's ahem organisation skills left quite a bit to be desired. I think couple B tend to think that the garden parties, new years eve Murder Mystery extravaganzas, weekends in the country, festival jaunts and holidays of a lifetime just happen when in reality, either couple A or I have been behind the scenes for months making sure it all comes together.

I don't think you are being unreasonable but I do think the dynamic has now changed and that may not be reversible. I think you need to think about how you can all be friends within the new dynamic rather than try and get it back to how it was.

Perhaps I sound negative but I have been in this situation with a group of three friends. It started becoming obvious that friend b was regularly doing stuff with friend a without me when previously we had done things together (in fact I introduced them).

I started off feeling hurt, then accepted that friend b just got something out of friendship a that she didnt get from me and that was just how it was.

It did change the group dynamic though and, to be honest, I don't see a huge amount of friend b these days, although I do see friend a very regularly.

Yanbu. I hate things like this. Try as I might to be all grown up and unbothered about it, I'd be quite hurt and would dwell on it. I think fatherchewylouis (fab Father Ted name btw) is right about the dynamic changing within the group. It would make me view the friendship in a different light.

It's horrible to feel that people in which you have invested trust and your friendship in are capable of being rather thoughtless.

I remember both your wedding gate and murder mystery threads well.

I think part of the problem is that you've always let thoughtlessness from B slide in the past, possibly because they've been relatively minor things that didn't seem worth bringing up at the time, especially if they were good friends in other ways.

This time it isn't so easy to ignore and I don't blame you for feeling upset, I would too. All you can really do is look at different scenarios, eg do you mention your hurt or not, then look at the potential consequences/effect on your friendship group of each scenario and make your decision based on what outcome you would like to achieve/to be achieved (I'm sorry, I don't think I'm explaining this too well).

I wouldn't blame you for feeling differently about this couple after this, I know I would.

Thanks for your thoughtful post, Chaotic Makes a lot of sense.

I've been thinking about this ViviPru... if you put yourself in B's position, would you EVER have done this, ie. booked something up that excludes one couple? I suspect not. I think you''d probably go to the villa with your DP and then arrange something with all three couples somewhere else where there's room for you all. Couple B could have come to you before making the offer to Couple A, asking if you'd mind or at least letting you know out of courtesy. I have to say though, I don't think couple A are all that either, they could just have said to Couple B - what about Vivi and Mr Vivi, we can't go without them, let's find something we can all go to. Why did couple A not just say that to B and it would all have been dead in the water, no hurt feelings. Couple B, unless they are spectacularly thick-witted - or would just be that oblivious and/or laid back themselves in being excluded - must realise before they said anything at all that this was going to cause bad feeling.

The thing is... a point is being made by B. I don't know what that point is, but it really isn't good and I don't see that it's something that can be undone. If you say something, a change will be because you said something, not because it was the right thing to do. It's very, very awkward.

I get the impression from your posts ViviPru that your social life and circle of friends is very important to you. I'm always blown away reading about the things that you organise and the trouble you go to do it. I wonder if you put more importance on your relationships with these couples than they do. :(

I'd give you a hug if I could; this just isn't nice and it's probably going to bug you for a while. If it were me, I'd back off a little, stop organising and picking up the slack and put things on a more casual basis. It might not be the right thing to do but I really would read this as a wake up call/snub, whichever.

Rant away though... I'm annoyed with both couples on your behalf!

Maybe you and DH should plan a fantastic break for the two of you - and maybe start expanding your friendship group?

I'd be very hurt too.

I Agee completely with Lying and in fact that s what I did in similar circumstances, but word of warning, when I stopped arranging stuff with friend b myself, it stopped happening, hence why I hardly see her anymore. I felt sad at first but am completely ok with it now. But it is worth bearing in mind that if you do take Lyings advice it could lead to the beginning of the end with this couple, which you may or may not be ok with.

Wow Lying what a touching, insightful post. Thanks to all who've posted.

I perhaps wasn't clear, as far as I'm aware couple B booked the holiday with a mind to it being their regular annual overseas trip, just them and DD. As an afterthought, they invited couple A. Couple A have not at this stage accepted, they pretty much called us straight away to ask if we were privy to the situation. Reading between the lines, A didn't want to take B to task over our exclusion in case they had indeed asked us first and we had declined, A wouldn't wanted to have put B on the spot like that.

Anyway, I recognise I do probably go to way more effort than people expect/demand, then feel a bit miffed when the same courtesy isn't returned. Which isn't fair on others. But I can honestly say I'm only ever miffed to myself, DP and you guys and I never ever martyr over it, which is probably why people don't fully appreciate it. I only do stuff because there's nothing better than relaxing and having loads of fun with your family and friends in lovely surroundings, eating nice food and listening to good music, and no one else bothers to get their finger out to organise it so I may as well!

We've got loads and loads of other good friends, we've just got back from a weekend away with another group which was refreshingly really well sorted out by someone else. Its just this group who are the subject of this post are particularly dear to me, we know each other best and always have the most fun together. I think I just need to accept the situation for what it is.

Ridiculously, I've had a bombshell professional issue arise today, the magnitude of which has blown any other problems out of the water so I'm starting to see this whole situation with a clearer perspective anyway!!

everything ok Viv? hope it's nothing too serious

Hmm, just managed to drop the mother of all bollocks, hopefully nothing that a spot of professional indemnity insurance wont cover if I keep telling myself that, I might start believing it In my line, its something that you kind of expect to happen sooner or later. I'll find out on Monday how serious it is likely to be.

Luckily my mum happened to be here when shit hit fan and my Dad weirdly phoned in the middle of it all, so was able to have a good dual parental shoulder sob so feeling a bit better!

Hope Monday is OK. Pity to have it hanging over you during the weekend

Sorry you are upset, Vivi.

I think you could spend a lot of time going over this, who is thoughtful, who isn't, what you would have done, or done differently, but it comes down to the fact that they are not like you. You are obviously kind and thoughtful and they are a bit lacking in the thoughtful front. That is just how they are, you cannot change them.

With friends we really love we have to assess whether their faults (which, because we love them can cause more hurt than those of just normal friends) are an acceptable price for the joy we get out of their company. If so, I think we just need to accept them for who they are. Which obviously doesn't mean we can't moan about them on MN

I understand why you are feeling down.

Thanks Red

Thanks Psam I'm going to take your paragraph as 3 the ultimate conclusion to my feelings on this.

You are all sage, kind ladies :)

Oops, just read about your work problem - hope that turns out ok.

It seems like you feel a little under-appreiated by this group. Maybe try taking a backseat for a while?

I would shrug and tell them to go and enjoy.

You're in a good position in a way. The other couple might say they can't go. You've not been put in that awkward position. If they do all go together it might not go very well. They'll all come home gossiping to you about each other. As KatieS says 'shrug and tell them to go and enjoy.'

@ the thought of being described as needy IRL. Perhaps I am - perhaps MN is the outlet for my inner needy drip.