To think My husbands Ex Wife is 'damaging' their daughter?

[YorkshirePrincess]

DH has a daughter with his ex wife, she's 13. She's very involved with horses and other than school has no other interests or activities. In fact I think she's only sent to school becuase it's the law!
I appreciate that horses are time consuming and take a lot of work but it has taken over her life and I think ex wife is living vicariously through child.
Apart from no longer spending time with us, she doesn't see her grandparents, cousins or friends from school. Everything is horses, horses, horses and I think it's damaging to not have other things in her life.
I also think she's being 'neglected' she's dirty, smelly, clothes are unkempt and smell, her hair is never brushed. She's always starving and as is not fed properly as the horses come first etc.
The ex is very bitter towards my husband as he left her, not for me, and I think her bad attitude is having a detrimental effect on their daughter. I can not see things having a happy ending!

My neighbour's daughter is 13, and totally horse obsessed. She spends every minute of her spare time at the stables, works there all holidays, and is a very skilled horse woman. He is pleased as punch and ever so proud at how much she has achieved. I think that is a slighter better attitude tbh.

I wonder if the reason she isn't so keen on seeing her dad, is she is 13, he left her mum, and he is with you. All fairly difficult things to deal with emotionally. She may not like him very much at the moment.

Another one here who was a horse and dog obsessed teenager, and is now horse and dog obsessed in middle age. Horses and dogs are messy and smelly. You get covered in shit, mud, straw, hay, saddle soap, hair and all manner of loveliness. And the thing is - it doesn't matter! I would bath and put clean clothes on regularly as a teen, but I always felt that I was more "me" once I was in my jods and up the stables or wearing old clothes to mess around in. Having a horse obsessed teenager is great - she is learning the care of another animal (great in teaching responsibility), fabulous exercise, discipline, and maybe even it could be her career. I still help out occasionally with a friend at Pony Club shows - I am genuinely so impressed by the teens I meet there. Polite, friendly, hardworking kids having a great day with friends and family. I had so much fun as a teenager doing Pony Club activities that it's lovely to put something back. And a shared interest in horses is often a great way for adults and teens/children to communicate.

So long as she is clean and tidy for school and non horsey family social activities, then I don't see a problem.

yes she has a phone, she doesn't answer and rarely replies to texts, we have all accepted that maybe she doesn't want to know, which is fine, upsetting but fine, it's her choice after all but we would like to know. He doesn't want to send texts and annoy her if she doesn't want them but he's given her an opportunity to say so - to her face, not by phone, in the past.

He does also contact his ex - to ask how is daughter is etc, he gets told that his daughter said she has had no contact from him and it would be nice if he made an effort to keep in touch with her!! The latest rant (and yes it really was a rant) from his ex accused him of not contacting her since before xmas however he could prove he'd had texts back from his daughter and sent them to her!

Yes she was involved in the wedding, she was a bridesmaid, (looked bloomin lovely she did too) and had a great time, it was cut short though as her mum decided to keep altering the time she could stay til!

Gordy - do your girls come home smelling like wet leaves and with clothes that have not been ironed or been worn several days? I'm not talking daily dirt here where she's not washed her face or hands all day, or being dishevelled after playing etc. Unless school unforms have changed since I was at school? I understand it is now apparently fashionable to have holes in their socks and ripped tights when at school but even so! Fair point about the food, my school dinners were pretty awful!

And in all honesty - I wouldn't know where to start about reporting what i see as neglect. Am i just being over sensitive as it's not how i was sent to school or how I would do it?

I come from a very loving and stable family, after 40+ years my parents are still together. Maybe that's my problem.........I don't understand how broken homes work???

I don't think anyone but the Daily Mail has referred to "Broken homes" since the mid 1970s

And of course, Clothes not ironed Quick call in Social Services!! Maybe she is a typical teenager and flings things on her bedroom floor in a deep litter system of storage. Maybe her mother has got fed up of picking up after her. Maybe her mother (quite reasonably) has said that at 13 she is old enough to iron her own clothes (and wash them actually) and like many teens she isn't bothered about the ironing bit. And having holes in her socks just means that she is growing and socks do get holes. Why not buy her some? They are not exactly expensive.

TBH, you sound really judgey and determined to pick faults with this poor girl and her mother.

"Maybe that's my problem.........I don't understand how broken homes work???"

1972 called and for it's phraseology back. Unless you mean their home is literally broken, in which case I recommend the services of a good builder - you can find one in the Yellow Pages.

If they have been rolling in leaves then yes - but then they are from a 'broken home' so what do you expect

You've just described several horsey friends I know. Nothing wrong with them or your SD as far as I can see.

It sounds like you have set ideas as to how this child should behave and she's not conforming to them. Maybe rather than over-worry about the daughter your husband and his ex wife share you might consider getting a hobby.

I can recommend horse-owning and riding.

I think your DH is expecting your DSD to behave in a very adult way and she's not going to. She's 13. While she's old enough to know right from wrong and that there are certain ways of behaving, 13-year-olds are not generally known for their ability to empathise with others and to to understand the nuances of relationships. I think your DH needs to stop being so passive. What he sees as not pressurising her is undoubtedly seen by your DSD as not being that interested in her. She isn't going to come out and baldly say "I don't want to see you much any more" or "I'd rather spend my free time with my horses". Some adults can't talk with that degree of frankness, so expecting 13-year-old to do so is ridiculous (even assuming that she knows what she wants). As her father it's down to him to be proactive about this.

It's worth remembering that non-resident parents offer suffer as the children get older and develop their own lives. It's quite common that they start to drop contact with the other parent as their own lives/friendships/activities take over. That's why it's so important to create a rock-solid relationship before this stage so that it can carry you through it and help you reconnect once the child comes through the other side. If he hasn't turned up for school events and all the other things that go on in a child's life, then he hasn't got that base and what's happening now isn't all that surprising. That's his own fault. Few parents on this thread would tolerate being excluded from their child's life and would fight for it. If your DH hasn't, it doesn't make him a bad person, but it does make him too passive for his own good and he's bearing the consequences of that.

If you or he have genuine concerns about her health/cleanliness/neglect etc. then you need to do something about it. If he won't, it's yet another instance of passivity. I sense a pattern. If you weren't around to worry, what would happen? If the answer is precisely nothing then I'm afraid your DH has the relationship he deserves with his DD.

I've had it recommended to me to get DD into horses, exactly because girls can become totally immersed - less interest in boys and boyfriend problems, hanging round stables rather than town centre etc etc

NarkedPuffin has asked the really important question:is she happy? if she is,then she is not being "damaged".

I don't think she is 100% happy but as I'm living in a timewarp from the 70's I'm clearly out of touch with what makes a 13 year old girl happy and what doesn't. I'm clearly also in a 70's timewarp about how a mother should look after a child too

I appreciate everyone's responses to this so far, thanks. My husband is part of the problem, he will freely admit that (as do I) and I'm probably trying to make up for lost ground and fighting a lost cause. He's just given up now I think, it hurts to much to keep getting knocked back each and every time, he's now hoping she'll come round eventually.

I will however speak to him again, I still think it's important she has regular contact with her dad and that her mother should encourage it.

cheers all

Hard to know really.

Perhaps like plenty of people on here are advised, her mum has told her she will wash her clothes when they are put in the wash basket. If they don't go in the wash basket they don't get done.

I would say at 13 she should be perfectly capable of putting her clothes in a washing machine, ironing them and getting herself showered/bathed/washed. Even making herself food.

It is actually pretty hard to force a teenager into the shower, I have done it though

I don't see that as being neglected more responsible at 13 for her own stuff.

As for the father/daughter relationship. That is down to her dad to sort out. Yes the ex can encourage however if the daughter is saying he hasn't contacted her what is the ex meant to do?

Although both GCs live with us, and have done since they were tiny, they still have contact with their mother. She refuses to take GD to Pony Club/competitions or GS to golf (his all-consuming passion)lessons and competitions (we offer to pay, do all horse transport and management etc, she just has to bring them along, watch, share their triumphs and disasters and then take them back to hers afterwards).

As a result the GCs have to choose between seeing their mother and taking part in things they've put their hearts and souls into. As they get more and more involved in their sports, and the social side of them, it will get more and more difficult

This afternoon both children are keen to ride so DH is getting home early and straight after school we'll all be out riding through the lovely countryside in this glorious early spring sunshine.

Get yourself a horse, op

Yes, maybe at 13 she should be able to wash, iron and feed herself. However she was only 13 last year (sept) and this was happening before, it's not a recent thing.

Thinking about it, maybe the word neglect is the wrong word to use about it all? I'm very maternal as is my mum, i'll look after anyone and any dog, maybe her mum is just not like that and therefore what I see as being normal she doesn't, i've not thought about it that way before.

My sis in law adores her kids but she freely admits she's not very maternal and is clueless about household chores and looking after them properly. They regularly request if they can come and live with me!!

Also, although she is very responsible and grown up when it comes to horses, she is still very childlike and quite immature with regards to everything else............Does anyone else find this with their horse/hobby mad children?

re the last point from Xales we did last summer have issues regarding her lying so would have thought her mum might check first when we mentioned we'd had no contact for a bit rather than take her word for it. She is aware he's been in contact, he proved it, in all honesty she made a bit of a tit of herself about it all last week!

Truthfully? Im quite envious of your step-daughter, i would have loved if my life were horse horse horse, she is a very lucky girl. I know horsey people, they stink of horse i think its a nice smell though. I do think its hard to appreciate, but actually people who are around horses do tend to be quite on the ball etc. Are you maybe a bit envious that your children dont have this opportunity? i mean that in the kindest way

As for the other things, if she goes to school dirty, that is not on

Trebblesallround...........he'd LOVE to take her to Pony Club, watch her compete etc.......I'd love to watch her compete, i'm dying to see her do well, she's apparently brilliant. I love being outdoors, not overly fussed about horses but i've ridden and would do so again.

But he's not given the opportunity to do that. He works shifts so could pick her up after school and take her to the stables and hang out there with her - he's very much into outdoor life too - he met his ex working on a farm where she kept her horses.

We know she's in a pony club but don't know which one, we know she goes to shows but to which ones we don't know. The stables where they keep all their horses are owned by his ex.........and although we know where they are he's not allowed to go over the threshold!!

I know he doesn't try much at the minute but he has in the past, what else can he do?

My dd was obsessed with horses between the ages of 7 and 17.She spent every spare minute with her pony,every weekend at shows or Pony Club-she only looked smart in the show ring.She wore dh's holey sweaters and a pair of old jodhpurs.When she came home in the evening she smelt of horse and was starving hungry.She was blissfully happy,made life-long friends,went to university,married and has two wonderful children.Her dad died when she was 11 and when I remarried she had a step dad.Woe betide anyone who had hinted at 'damage' or 'neglect' to me.

OP, you say that you are very maternal, but do you actually have any children? It is all very well criticising the SIL and your dH's ex for not being very maternal because they don't do certain chores, their are holes in their children's socks etc, but you seem to have a bit of an idealised concept of motherhood.

Lots of very maternal people are not that bothered about household chores.

Sorry OP but I simply don't buy the "we don't know which Pony Club she goes to" line. Pony Club has branch areas, each of which cover a certain part of the country. Even allowing for the fact that you might be in an area where you could be on the border of two branches, the PC has a very comprehensive website, which lists all the branches, AND their forthcoming events. I went on there only this week as I wanted to check the date of a show I may be stewarding at. At most there could be only be one or two branches that your SD could be a member of, and most PC kids often wear PC branch sweatshirts, hoodies etc. Mine was my most prized possession as a teenager (after my horse).

Most local non PC shows are also very well advertised, and in lots of parts of the country, there are Facebook groups which list events, shows etc. in the local area. Depending on what sorts of shows/events she enjoys you should be able to draw up a pretty comprehensive list of what's on in your area with just an hour on the PC.

And if by "immature" and "childlike" you mean not obsessed with boys, and not determined to spend hours on makeup then actually I'd say that's probably quite healthy. God forbid we turn out teenage girls who are only acceptable if they fit some Barbie style stereotype.

I've looked up the Pony Club website, she could be member of one or more branches. I've never seen her in a Pony Club sweatshirt, yes we probably could do more to find out which one she goes to. My point is we shouldn't have to, a simple question is all it would take for most people - which pony club are you in and where is your next show - should result in an answer so he can go watch. He doesn't get the answers!!!

And No I don't have kids - you don't need them to have maternal instincts do you? I've not criticised the SIL and I was trying to be fair to the ex. I judge motherhood from my own mum, friends mums growing up and my friends now who are mum's. NONE of them bar the SIL, who as I said freely admits it and is a family joke, and the Ex treat their kids or households like they do.

Maybe you could read Enid Blyton's Six Cousins At Mistletoe Farm for a greater insight? Jane had many of the same problems, but was eventually persuaded into washing and even training her hair with bobby pins.

Your dsd sounds exactly like me when I was that age. If I wasn't at school I was with the horses. I had school friends and horsey friends and rarely socialised with school friends out of school. I didn't 'find' boys or make up until I was 15/16 as any time involved with those meant less time with the horses. I rarely showered (much to mums annoyance :)) and even though I started the day relatively clean, by the time I got to school, via the stables to sort them out in the morning, I would be less than polished when I arrived I gave up on wearing tights as I would always put a hole in them within an hour of putting them on. Given a choice between visiting family/ non horsey days out/anything not vaguely horsey related, the horses would always win hands down.
You also have to factor in the fact that horses cannot be left to fend for themselves for a day, they have to be looked after every day, twice a day come rain or shine, and if your dsd is as good as you say, then her horses will need exercising/ schooling every day and free weekends are an impossibility as shows are usually at the weekend and the Pony Club will hold rallies/camp/shows/events during the week in the school holidays. It's an all consuming hobby, and when I was a child, if something didn't involve horses it wouldn't even cross my radar. I wasn't neglected (although I may have looked it) quite the opposite in fact.
As a pp has said, you can quite easily find which pc she belongs to and also local shows, also, most pc's have their own fb page now so there's no excuse for not knowing what's going on. His exw can't stop you from turning up to a public event and I bet dsd would secretly love for her dad to come and watch her.

Sorry, posted too soon.
Maybe dsd feels she's a bit caught in the middle and doesn't want to rock the boat with her mum if she invites her dad to competitions. And depending on which sphere of riding she's into, there won't be much time to stand around chatting as she will be too busy preparing for a class/test/cross country, then actually doing it then looking after the horse after she's finished. I remember being reluctant for my dp to come and watch me when I was competing as I simply wouldn't have had the time to spend with him and I knew he would feel a bit of a spare part. Incidentally, he did come and watch me once, and only once for the reasons above. If a spectator isn't actively involved in horses and doesn't quite know what's going on it can put a lot of pressure on the 'watchee' to entertain the spectator. Perhaps she feels like this? whatever she feels, your dh won't find out until he starts making more contact with her which I think he needs to do if he wants to be part of her life as she's too young and absorbed in her hobby to do it herself.
I hope things can be sorted out for you op.

Bloody hell, epic posts sorry :)