to not want FIL to move in with us

[theressomethingaboutmarie]

I'm 14 weeks pg with DC2 and work full-time. DH has three sisters, one younger and two older. The younger sister lives with her DH and FIL. FIL is in his 80's and somewhat infirm and doesn't look after himself. The idea was that FIL would move in with her due to these issues and contribute towards the rent so that he could be near family and she could get a bigger house. The original idea was that younger SIL would buy a house (FIL gave her a significant deposit and would be contributing to the mortgage) but she decided to rent instead.

They used to live very close to the other two sisters and us which was great in terms of being able to drop in to check on FIL, taking him to the doctor, to get his hair cut etc. They've recently moved 15 miles away to a bigger house; DH counselled against moving so far away as it would be difficult for the rest of the family to help look after FIL but she ignored him. DH went to visit his dad last week and found the heating turned right down, no fridge (they hadn't bought one yet) and barely any food in the house. He turned up the heating and resolved to speak with his sister about the situation. Youngest SIL called him that evening berating him for turning up the heating in her house (it really was freezing in there!) and told him to mind his own business. She still has the significant sum of money that FIL gave to her and has started spending it on things such as a huge television (they already have a huge television...).

Older SIL dropped in on FIL yesterday and found that he was smelly (he finds it difficult to get in and out of the bath so the new place has a shower cubicle for him to use), the milk was frozen in the fridge, there was still no food in the house and that two of FIL's medical appointments had been cancelled because younger SIL didn't have the opportunity to take him. She called DH to discuss and DH quite naturally, started to get worried about his dad's welfare.

DH is now talking about his dad living with us instead and getting our garage converted into a room for FIL. I told him that there was no way that I would be the main carer for his dad as I would have a 4 year old and a new baby to look after during mat leave. He insisted that wouldn't be the case but when pushed, acknowledged that as I would be on mat leave, I would be the main carer. I'm just fuming that his sister doesn't seem to give much of a crap about his dad and expects the rest of the family to do 60 mile round trips to do such things as take FIL to the doctors, get his hair cut etc. Not one of the family confronts her about her behaviour ("I don't want to get involved" is the family motto it seems) and it seems that I will be the one taking on all of the burden.

I'm pretty sure that IANBU but would welcome perspectives and advice.

YANBU, why aren't they looking for sheltered housing or a care home? A really nice one would give him the chance to socialise as well as care for him.
The money has probably gone now I'm afraid.

How recent is the move to a big house? The cancelling appointments would bother me. The lack of a fridge wouldn't as presumable SIL and her husband will also be needing a fridge so will buy one soon. Without temperatures it's hard to know how cold the house is as from threads on mumsnet people like their houses at very different temperatures. Is your FIL happy? Is the problem that he really needs a care home if there is a shower in SILs house why hasn't he used it? You can get hairdressers to the house. Is 30 miles away really the nearest GP or has she not changed GPs yet?
Too many questions here need answering. Maybe give the SIL a chance as if you take FIL on the SIBS will be inspecting your care in the way you are inspecting SIL.
Converting a garage to a room isn't easy as loads of insulation will be needed, heating put in rewiring to stop it being very cold.
I think I'd go for FIL in nearby care home rather than in your garage, but only if he is unhappy and the current problems aren't just due to the move. You don't mention concerns about FIL prior to the move.

YANBU to not want FiL to live with you.
I agree with the two previous posters. Either a residential home or sheltered accommodation.
Sadly, I also agree that the large sum of money has a bit dent in it.

Could you group together and pay for a daily carer to come and see to your FIL's needs? Or perhaps contact ss to see if they would provide for one?

How about a care home closer to where all the family are based? A garage conversion would take time/planning permission issues.

I don't YABU given the situation.

Actually I see they have now got a fridge and the complaint is that the milk was frozen in the fridge. Surely that just reflects her having her new fridge settings set too low or having just removed the milk from the freezer? I'm not sure why frozen milk in fridge is seen as a sign of poor standards, just poor new fridge knowledge. I'm presuming they all have 1 kitchen and fridge between them so SIL etc will be eating and just not have a big stock of food yet as just moved house. Why are you all inspecting SIL's cupboards anyway?

Thanks for your responses. The move was 3 weeks ago. The medical appointments were a concern for all as his health isn't brilliant so he needs to visit the doctors regularly. Youngest SIL said that we should all stop worrying, that she would handle it. The house really was pretty chilly - I kept my coat on in there and FIL had his coat on too. I don't know how happy he is - I'm sure he likes the extra space but he doesn't get to see his family as often.

With regard to the shower, he does need to be encouraged to use it - he doesn't look after himself very well. When he used to stay with us on occasion, we used to run a bath for him, get him some fluffy towels etc and DH would encourage him to use it. He hasn't changed GP's yet - I don't know what the plan is there. Even so, SIL works all day so even if the GP was local, she wouldn't be able to take him there.

I think that he needs a care home or at least sheltered accommodation but he would not hear of it. He is fiercely independent (despite being barely able to look after himself unfortunately) and not that easy to get on with.

AGreed about the garage - it would be a lot of work and very expensive. As I will be on mat leave soon, getting that done would deplete all of our savings. I really feel for DH as he is so worried about his dad but I don't think he's got the right solution in mind.

Prior to the move, FIL was pretty much fine as if we popped in and saw that food was low, we could just pop to the shop and grab some for him. Additionally, he'd regularly come to our house for lunch/dinner at the weekends so we could give SIL a break. His GP is very local to his previous home so again, getting him there and back was no issue.

YANBU to not want to become your FIL's carer. He is not your father, and you cannot allow a situation to develop where you 'end up' doing the lion's share of the caring, because you at on mat leave. That time is for you to look after your children, not your partner's father.

HOWEVER, - it sounds a bit like you think that the two sisters should be doing the caring still. It sounds like they have taken on the full burden of keeping an eye on the FIL up till now, and it is not unreasonable of them not to want to do that any more. Maybe it is time for your partner to take more of a hands-on role? You say that he 'counselled' his sister not to move too far away, as it would be 'difficult' for the rest of the family to help, - that sounds a bit to me like 'you have to stay looking after our father', rather than allowing her to make her own life choices. After all, your partner has chosen to move away from his family, why shouldn't his sister? No wonder she 'ignored' him, - I would have done the same!

Hi Rebecca, yes they do now have a fridge but the point is, that as he would be unable to work out how to deal with the fridge temperature, he wouldn't have drunk all day (he only drinks coffee with milk). I don't inspect SIL's cupboards . DH was concerned that when he'd asked his dad what he'd had for lunch, his dad said that he'd had nothing as there was nothing in. That's when DH checked the kitchen to see if his dad had actually missed where the food was (they'd not long since moved in so some things didn't have a permanent home yet).

Hmmm I don't know. I've cancelled appointments for my FIL before now (or rather rearranged them) because they weren't convenient for me (and as I'm the one who takes him, they have to be convenient) my FIL is also smelly... I don't live with him, but I change his bedding about twice a week, and I clean his house, wash his clothes AND chuck him in the bath when he comes to ours (about once a week) yet he is still smelly. If he lived with us, he'd probably still smell of old man.

I do not want my FIL living with us, because it would be ME who would have to give him 24hr care and I am not prepared or qualified to do that... especially when the care gets more personal. Its a huge ask for any child, let alone a child-in-law!

I think sheltered housing is probably long gone isn't it if he cannot look after himself in even a basic way? If he needs washing, feeding etc., then maybe a residential home is the 'best' option for him?

I will say that its very easy to criticise from a distance, when you're not the one doing everything, its very easy to get angry. Your SIL may not be doing anything wrong, maybe she didn't realise how cold it was in the house (maybe your FIL turned the heating down?) maybe she was due to go shopping? Maybe the fridge hadn't been delivered yet?

Is you FIL contributing towards the rent? Has the money he's given her been spent on things for your FIL? Is he really being neglected whilst your SIL spends the cash on herself? (Buying a TV really isn't an indicator).

When you choose to allow one family member to take over the care, things can get very VERY tricky, because you all care, but you don't all do the 24/7 caring and that is very different.

Would your DH take on that role? 24/7? Or would it be left to you? Your question shouldn't just be about whether you want FIL in the garage or not, but whether you are prepared to care for him 24/7, its a hard job, and whatever anyone says (and they will all say you won't have to do that) you will end up doing it.

I'd look at residential homes. With a supportive, loving family, sometimes they are the best option all round, you would not be 'dumping' him, you'd be giving him the right care, company, and comfort round the clock.

Hi Tigermoll - I do understand about SIL wanting her own life, I get that. She was the one who suggested that her dad live with her and her partner as they could then get a bigger place etc. To want to have her cake and eat it seems a little unreasonable to me. It seems that they are happy to take his money but not to look after him.

When he was local, we were regular visitors and as mentioned in an earlier post, he would come to ours most weekends for meals etc to give SIL a break. Also, we would all pitch in for taking him to hair cuts, doctors appointments, getting food in when SIL was away etc so I don't think it's fair to say that we haven't pitched in.

My FIL lives about 17miles away, I see him 4 times a week. So your FIL is not that far away.

I feel a bit sorry for your SIL, she works full time, looks after your FIL, is expected to sort all the GP appointments and make sure the shopping is done for your visits? Your DH could sort out the appointments surely?

There's no reason why you can't do the same for him as you did before.

I'd get in touch with social service, your FIL may be entitled to a carer for a few minutes a day?

My FIL lives alone and has carers twice a day (including me every other day) but we were told even if he lived with us, he'd still be entitled to a carer. Even if it was for 1/2 an hour each morning, they could make him a sandwich for his lunch and take some pressure off SIL.

I think talk to SS, there are care homes/sheltered accomodation where the older person has their own front door with an intercom to a warden who is on call in the vicinity 24 hours a day. Something like that would be ideal and less drastic.

Rather than putting all the burden of care on one person, how about you all say you will take your FIL to appointments (so split between you) etc so the burden isn't too heavy on just one person.

Also has your DH thought of asking SIL for your FILs money to put into a trust or something for him?

You'll probably find he is outside the practice area for his previous GP so needs to change GPs. If he walks OK and can get in and out of a taxi then SIL could order a taxi to take him to the GPs and give him money to ask the receptionists to book him 1 for the return trip.
Independant relatives who are happy to neglect their hygeine are a problem to look after and you would probably get fed up with the cajoling with fluffy towels routine if you had to do it every other day. I presume SIL has her own routine for managing this, if she has just moved she maybe has enough to do without hassling FIL to do stuff she maybe feels he should be getting on with himself.
If he is mentally capable of deciding to live with SIL and refuses a care home there isn't much you can do, jut continue chipping in with care. it sounds as though SIL has a rough time of things and FIL isn't an easy bloke to "look after".
I don't think you can expect SIL not to ever move just because she has FIL living with her.
The food issue sounds odd and it's hard from the info to know if you are just concerned that SIL keeps a lower stock of food in the fridge than you do but there is enough for FIL, BIL and SIL's meals day to day or whether SIL, BIL and FIL are all starving. I see you don't buy food for SIL and BIL though just FIL which makes me suspect the former.

I see there sometimes is nothing for him to eat for lunch. In that case maybe discuss with SIL her making sure she always has bread and chees in the house for sandwiches, although if your FIL is incapable of working out that the milk will defrost if he removes it from the fridge for an hour I wonder if he is capable of making a sandwich.
It's starting to sound as though he needs 24 hour care.

When he was local, we were regular visitors

I'm confused, - he isn't local anymore, because you have moved, or because he has?

You say that you 'used' to have him over for meals, take him to appointments, etc, but you don't do that any more. So, although I'm sure that you have been helpful in the past, the FIL also needs care now. I'm not sure that you should expect that that should fall only to the sisters. (it is often assumed, sometimes unconsciously, that the women in a family should do the caring, but I think we can all agree that that is not the case).

It seems that they are happy to take his money but not to look after him

The money is not your business. You assume that it has been spent on a big TV, but you don't know that, and even if you did, it is not something you can get involved in. The money issue is between the father and SIL.

The bottom line is that ALL the siblings have a responsibility to care for their father. That is unaffected by who lives closer, - just because one sibling lives closer does not mean that they are the ones who should have their lives given over to doing the caring.

It sounds like you are cross with the SIL for changing the deal, - you had assumed that she would do the caring, and now you feel cheated that the goalposts have moved. Well, they have moved, the SIL has a right to change her mind, and all of the siblings need to work out a way for their father to have the quality of life he deserves.

I don't think he'd cope with sheltered housing if he refuses to bathe and can't remove the milk from a too cold fridge too defrost it. He is sounding increasingly like he has dementia and does need everything done for him. A lunchtime carer to give him a sandwich may be good if the local authority or SIL will pay for one.

tricky one.
YANBU not to want FIL to move in with you.

The situation has changed since FIL first moved in with SIL. Has it been harder for her than she originally thought? Does she actually want to keep caring for FIL or does she feel obliged to continue? Is the move away a drastic means to ensure that the situation has to change somehow without her appearing to be the "baddie" as such?

I think you need to call a family crisis meeting. You need to be sympathetic to her concerns/responsibilities and not "attack" her for what you see as the problems. As previous posters have said, it's easier to care without having 24/7 responsibility. Also contact SS to find out if outside help is available.

Together calmly as a family ask

what she wants/is capable of doing
what her father actually needs and wants (they might be different)
what the rest of the family want to do or are capable of doing
the impact her move has had on the care
what is the best thing to do to move forward

Good luck but the answer is not for him to move in with you.

I agree that all siblings have a responsibility to take care of their father - there's no disputing that. However, as they all work full-time, it's increasingly hard to do that when he's not just around the corner.

The money has been partly spent on a big TV, SIL told DH that this was the case - you're right though, that's between her and FIL.

I do like the idea of a drop-in carer actually and hadn't even thought about that.

It did work out much better when he was local as one of his daughters worked locally and could take him to the doctors in lunchtimes etc. I do appreciate the perspective that SIL has her own life and if she wants to move further away, then so be it but surely she can't expect that the rest of the family can drop in after work and at lunchtimes (as was the case previously) due to the fact that he's a 25 minute drive away. Surely if the support of the rest of the family was still needed, it seems folly to move away?

Sigh - I appreciate that it's a tricky one.

I've learnt from watching my in-laws deal with DH's grandmother that looking after an elderly relative is a fluid situation and needs to be revised and revisited by the family continually and not just when issues arise. My FIL's brother only stepped in to put the grandmother into a home and offered very little help in the interim.

YANBU to not want your FIL living with you. Your DH is just looking at the issue in the short term. The whole family needs to look further ahead and anticipate future needs. My grandfather moved into a home after being on his own, and very miserable, for a few years after my grandmother died. He was extremely happy and well looked after in the (Council-run) home he lived in for four years. A home or sheltered accommodation doesn't have to be all doom and gloom.

if she wants to move further away, then so be it but surely she can't expect that the rest of the family can drop in after work and at lunchtimes (as was the case previously) due to the fact that he's a 25 minute drive away. Surely if the support of the rest of the family was still needed, it seems folly to move away?

But why should it be HER that has to stay close? You're saying 'it was unreasonable of her to move away, and make it harder for the rest of us', as if she is the only one who has to take her father into account.

Put it this way, - if she had stayed where she was, then you would have been happy for her to keep doing the caring, taking on more and more as your FIL's needs grew, and giving up more and more of her life to it. Every time she tried to get more support, she would have been met with the slightly pathetic 'but we live 25 mins away, so you'll have to do it'. By moving away, she has forced a more equal distribution of responsibility.

You should be grateful to her for the years of work she has taken on, not cross with her for not wanting to do it any more.

Re the sheltered housing/old peoples home; i used to work in one and I know that most elderly people don't like the loss of their 'independance' or their own home,but I know that generally once they are in their new place, they absolutely love it.
Ww bought our prev house from an old lady who had lived there 40-odd years, she was leaving to go to one of these places with their own flatlet but with communual areas too. She was dreading it, hated the idea of leaving her family home, but having fallen downstairs too many times, it was a necessity. She loves her place now, has professionals there to help at all times, a thriving social circle, activities etc, and her own flat.

Elderly poeple doesn't like change but once it's made, it's all good. I really would think about making it for him.

Tigermoll - I think we might have crossed wires here. When SIL was local, we ALL pitched in and regularly because she lived around the corner with FIL. Now that she has moved further away, again with FIL, of course it makes it harder. All of the other siblings work full-time so having an hours round trip to pop-in on their dad is a significant chunk of an evening. Also, as mentioned earlier, the GP's appointments are tricky because the sister who works locally cannot deal with them in her lunchtime anymore hence cancelled appointments.

Oh, I see, - I didn't realise that she had moved FIL away from you all was well. Apologies :)

Tigermoll - no problem at all.

I think you are NBU to not want to be a carer , especially when on maternity leave. Looking after your children will be a full time job. However, your SIL has a full time job too- and it sounds like she is struggling to cope with juggling work and caring for her father. Maybe she does not even realise she is struggling, perhaps she has taken the brunt of the 24 hr care for so long she cannot see that there is a problem , and so is resentful when her siblings waft in to give a few hours care and get their judgey pants on. I think you need to all get together and discuss the long term options for your FIL. Perhaps he could have a carer come in for a few hours as previously suggested, and what about meals on wheels for lunchtime ? Responsibility for doctors appointments should perhaps be shared out between you all, and if someone needs to take time off work to go with him then so be it, but if you share it out then it need not be that often. Also, stop being so judgey about the money- this is an arrangement between SIL and her father. Perhaps the huge TV was for the benefit of FIL, perhaps he can see the pictures better on a large screen?? Just a thought. But please give your SIL a break. 24 hr care for an elderly relative is really hard work.