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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

For being a really shit, two faced friend?

27 replies

MuckyStudent · 27/02/2012 20:46

I have a muslim friend. (Bangladeshi but British born) I've known her for 3 years and we are pretty close. When we first met she didn't mention her religion or culture much at all and she would join in and do the same kind of stuff as everyone else. Then last year she seemed to change, she started taking her religion more seriously, started wearing a head scarf and stopped coming into pubs etc with us. This was all fine, she was still our friend and we supported the change. However she started to "Preach" a little. Started going on about how people in Britain have no morals and go around dressed as sluts (this was in summer and the girls in question were just wearing shorts and a t-shirt). She started going on and on about her culture continuously until it dominated every conversation. If our group of friends were arranging to go out, she'd demand that no men were invited (which split our group) and that we could only go to certain places and nowhere she would disaprove of. She would walk around the canteen saying about all the "disgusting food" until she found something halal at which point she would start a load of dramatics such as "oooh halal meat!! you HAVE to try halal meat it's SO nice, EVERYONE should eat halal meat ...." and it REALLY started to get people's backs up after a bit. I love her to bits, she has a heart of gold but this religious/culture stuff was really getting too much. She would play the race card with everything. Trying to get away with wearing stuff we wern't allowed to wear in the name of religion, trying to book holidays off at times we wern't allowed in the name of religion - she would even admit to us that it wasn't down to religion at all but she would say that to get what she wanted.
I'm ashamed to say a few of us started having a moan about her behind her back :( not slagging her off as such but talking about what a shame it was that she'd changed so much as people that didn't know her well thought she was irritating. But nobody said anything to her. Then we all got split up to go work placements.

She's just called me in tears. She said she loved her placement at first but now she hates it as the staff are racist and have it in for her and she can't face going in anymore. I was horrified and asked what had happened and apparently a few members of staff had complained about her "shoving religion down their necks". She has been asked to stop going on about it as it was getting people's backs up and in one conversation she told a member of staff that she wanted to send her kids to an all muslim school in which the staff member replied "they shouldn't exist. Why not send your kids to a normal school? why all the segregation? imagine if we set up Christian schools in Muslim countries? it just wouldn't be allowed and it shouldn't be here either." My friend took this as a racist comment, mentioned it to the supervisor and has basically had a right time of it ever since.

My reponse to all this was silence - followed by a guilty thought of "shit, we should have told her before she started the placement to tone it down" - followed by a very two faced "omg how awful! you're nothing like that at all!" to which she replied "I know!! I just don't understand"

I do. Because we've all said the same thing behind her back . I feel so shit but how could I say "actually, they're right"??

This is NOT a post taking a pop at Muslims before anyone says it. I'm just asking if I'm being unreasonable to think I couldn't tell her as it would have upset her (but now its gone a lot further because I didn't tell her ) :( what would you have done?

OP posts:

lesley33 · 27/02/2012 20:51

I would have done the same as you ...and felt equally bad.

Archemedes · 27/02/2012 20:54

You're in a very hard situation, people like that just don't process critique in a logical way and see everything as an attack.

Don't be too hard on yourself, I think make a promise to yourself to try and be honest form now , not blunt but honest.

Eglu · 27/02/2012 20:56

It's a shame that you and your friends couldn't have had a sit down with her when she started to get too much for you. Although I am like Lesley and probably would have been the same.

something2say · 27/02/2012 20:56

Yes, let her learn. I think sometimes people get on a bandwagon that they love and feel passionately about, and they ram it down other people's necks. It takes an incident like this to make them realise. Don't say anything for now, help her pick up the pieces, reassure her that time will pass and she'll be OK, and then maybe later on down the line talk more honestly about it.

Original poster

MuckyStudent · 27/02/2012 20:57

The thing is, in that moment of silence part of me was saying "just tell her the truth" but I couldn't it would be like giving someone a good kick whilst they're down. I feel so sorry for her because she genuinely doesn't realise how annoying it is. I'm atheist - I would find it annoying no matter what religion it was - it's not an attack on her religion at all, just at having it drilled into us everytime we see her. But she'll never understand.

OP posts:

Coconutty · 27/02/2012 20:59

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Eglu · 27/02/2012 21:00

Yes, telling her now would not be a good time. She is already having a hard time.

troisgarcons · 27/02/2012 21:02

Take the religious aspect out of it - anyone who shoves any belief down someones throat constantly (so for religious you may input vegan, socialist, fascist et al) really will manage to ostracise themselves.Firstly because they are boring and secondly because only another fanaticist likes another with common beliefs.

Silly thing is, when it's religious, people will often run scared of the subject due to being 'racist' - where as if you had a born-again-vegan you'd just tell them they were boring the shit out of you and you couldn't give a mardy shit so long as your steak was still pulsating on the plate.

she would even admit to us that it wasn't down to religion at all but she would say that to get what she wanted.

Your mate is a manipulator who does her religion no favours whatsoever. Its people like her who cause divisivness in society and prevent cohesion.

toddlerama · 27/02/2012 21:03

Let this settle down, and when she's feeling less shocked and hurt, if it comes up again you can say perhaps they had a point re. the workplace and broach it that way.

Stay123 · 27/02/2012 21:04

She sounds a complee bore at best. People like that are hyper sensitive and over eager to see "racial attacks" everywhere. Sounds like she is causing a lot of trouble at the new place she works. If I had been brave I would have sat her down and mentioned it to her but chances are I wouldn't have risked her calling me racist, etc, etc so would have quietly not contacted her.

GoingForGoalWeight · 27/02/2012 21:04

I've met a few religous people this way, Muslim people too.

Original poster

MuckyStudent · 27/02/2012 21:05

She's a lovely person when you put this aside. She'll offer you her last penny if she see's you struggling. She goes out of her way to help people, she'd do anything for anyone but because this religion/culture thing is such a massive deal to her, she is blinded to the fact that nobody else cares about it but it's not just the odd mention - she goes on and on and on. I kept quiet for a long time because I assumed I was the only person getting irritated by it (and we're all frightened of that R-word aren't we) but after a few too many drinks one night I mentioned it to a mutual friend who shot up and said "omg I thought it was just me!". She then admitted that on occasion she has faked phone calls to get away from the conversations that she dominates.

OP posts:

GlueSticksEverywhere · 27/02/2012 21:05

I actually think you should be honest with her. If you carry on agreeing with her she will carry on down the same path alienating people.

ImperialBlether · 27/02/2012 21:10

I think you should be a real friend to her now and talk to her seriously about the way she's been behaving and how unpopular it's making her.

I wouldn't say that you've talked to others about her, but I would say that you have noticed other people don't like it. Refuse to name names, just say that when, for example, she called women sluts, you noticed people looked really shocked at her language.

She needs to be told.

runningwilde · 27/02/2012 21:16

Do her a big favour and tell her what a twat she is being

People like this really get on my goat, if she hates it here so much why doesnt she move? I am a daughter of immigrants and I love my culture but I do not exploit the fact I am between two cultures and my parents don't expect this country to adapt to their culture. We do have a community working out culture and live between that culture and British society - as we should. People like your mate are fucking idiots who cause tension and they disgust me with the way they exploit their culture and beliefs. Of course we should all celebrate and live harmoniously with diversity but she is taking the piss and has no respect for others.

Do her a favour and tell her that

MixedClassBaby · 27/02/2012 21:16

The staff member's comment to your friend wasn't particularly enlightened. Imolies that this is an exclusively christian country and that muslim schools aren't 'normal'. Could you gently tell your friend that she's being a general bore and banging on too much rather than criticising her viewpoint.

WilsonFrickett · 27/02/2012 21:20

I think if you are her friend then you do need to speak to her about it, but probably not today. Let her work through what is happening with the placement, whether she is going back or not, and then talk it through honestly with her in a couple of weeks or so. Make a date to see her on her own for coffee or whatever and it's guaranteed to come up.

The other pov is she's an adult and she'll learn from experience, but if you are a real friend you'll risk an uncomfortable situation to try and help her learn faster and with less pain.

troisgarcons · 27/02/2012 21:21

this is an exclusively christian country

umm, no it isnt

MixedClassBaby · 27/02/2012 21:21

'We're all scared of the 'R word'? I'm not!

MixedClassBaby · 27/02/2012 21:24

Trois, yes I know. I said that the staff member's comment to op's friend was implying this.

elephantsteaparty · 27/02/2012 21:26

Could you make a gentle joke of it? When she brings it up next time say something like "yes, we've heard that before" and move the conversation on. She may get the message without having to be told.

blueemerald · 27/02/2012 21:29

I've known/worked with a few people who have made comments like that and I pulled them up sharpish about using the word 'slut' to describe other women and the fact that in my opinion halal (and kosher [my family is jewish]) slaughter is incredibly unethical.

You need to have a word with your friend before someone takes incredible offence to what she says and has a go at her (she doesn't sound like she could take it/defend herself).

She sounds like she's just got a bit over excited about her new found/renewed faith.

Original poster

MuckyStudent · 27/02/2012 21:33

I can just imagine her face when she was questioned and I want to cry for her but at the same time she says some really offensive stuff and doesn't seem to realise. Stuff about British soldiers for instance which caused an argument at work and she genuinely couldn't understand why people were upset. I can imagine she's got to this new placement and found a whole new set of people to "educate" about her culture/religion but because they don't know the old her, they've taken it badly and not held back on the defence.

OP posts:

ImperialBlether · 27/02/2012 21:38

Where does she get off, talking like that? Which society would she like to live in? The UK has never been as she wishes, so it's not as though she's harking to the past.

It makes me really angry that people are so fucking insulting and think that a society which is and always has been completely different to themselves should change to suit them.

redwineformethanks · 27/02/2012 21:47

This isn't just a Muslim issue. A relative of mine was called in by his supervisor because he had been sharing his Christian views too loudly in the office and it made colleagues uncomfortable.

I feel sorry for your friend because she's upset, but I think in that situation people need to either (a) offer their views and take it on the chin if others don't agree or else (b) be a little more discreet

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