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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not know if describing a person as coloured is politically incorrect.

646 replies

WhenSheWasBadSheWasHorrid · 25/02/2012 19:05

Was talking to a friend today and I mentioned I had met one of his colleagues (but I wasn't sure who). He said. Oh was she a coloured lady?

I said yes and we each knew who it was I had met. I was a bit taken aback as you don't really hear the word coloured used anymore. But it was probably the best way to describe her (kind of Mediterranean / Indian).

Was I being too politically correct for being Shock at the way he described her?

OP posts:
perceptionreality · 28/02/2012 22:17

I suspect the reason certain posters keep returning to the thread with nonsensical arguments is that they know that they use these words in RL, they aren't prepared to change, but they would also prefer to eat their own arms rather than admit they have racist leanings.

PeppyNephrine · 28/02/2012 22:18

Really? Gleeful gangs of PC mafia? Roaming the land were they?

I bet you're not at all exaggerating. Not at all. Hmm

SheKnittedHimAJumper · 28/02/2012 22:26

My nan, last night, when telling me who won the Oscars said "The beautiful coloured actress won for The Help" because she didnt know her name. She's 82 and I just replied "Octavia Spencer" Im not about to pull a lovely 82 year old up.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 28/02/2012 22:27

[edit]On political correctness

It really worries me that 84% of this audience agrees with that statement, because the kind of people that say "political correctness gone mad" are usually using that phrase as a kind of cover action to attack minorities or people that they disagree with. I'm of an age that I can see what a difference political correctness has made. When I was four years old, my grandfather drove me around Birmingham, where the Tories had just fought an election campaign saying, "if you want a nigger for a neighbour, vote Labour," and he drove me around saying, "this is where all the niggers and the coons and the jungle bunnies live." And I remember being at school in the early 80s and my teacher, when he read the register, instead of saying the name of the one asian boy in the class, he would say, "is the black spot in," right? And all these things have gradually been eroded by political correctness, which seems to me to be about an institutionalised politeness at its worst. And if there is some fallout from this, which means that someone in an office might get in trouble one day for saying something that someone was a bit unsure about because they couldn't decide whether it was sexist or homophobic or racist, it's a small price to pay for the massive benefits and improvements in the quality of life for millions of people that political correctness has made. It's a complete lie that allows the right, which basically controls media now, and international politics, to make people on the left who are concerned about the way people are represented look like killjoys. And I'm sick, I'm really sick-- 84% of you in this room that have agreed with this phrase, you're like those people who turn around and go, "you know who the most oppressed minorities in Britain are? White, middle-class men." You're a bunch of idiots.
From "Heresy", BBC Radio 4, 16th May 2007
The twisting of the idea of 'political correctness' into a soft, one-size-fits-all punchbag for the right-wing media and your nan is a personal bugbear of mine [...] . In 2008, Edward Stourton published It's a PC World, which explained everything I ever wanted to say on the subject far more eloquently than I ever could have, and used actual statistical facts to back it up. Because no one can imagine a remotely pro-political correctness book, Stourton's book was, tellingly, misfiled by bookshops in the humour section, alongside Richard Littlejohn's Hell in a Handcart, those crappy politically correct fairy tales books and Al Murray's Pub Landlord annuals. Pundits on the Right like to imagine we live in a PC dictatorship, but the fact remains that in a high-street bookshop it is assumed that any book with PC in the title must be a hilarious attack on PC, rather than a book in its defence, because the only time you ever see PC mentioned is when people are complaining about PC. For money. And usually on the very publicly funded radio stations that these dicks believe are involved in a politically correct conspiracy to silence them.
How I Escaped my Certain Fate: the Life and Deaths of a Stand-Up Comedian, p. 82 - 83
[edit]Stewart Lee's Comedy Vehicle

perceptionreality · 28/02/2012 22:30

Isn't that a bit patronising? I hope people don't take that approach with me when I'm old. I'd rather be told the truth if I'm out of touch by then.

I do pull people up when they say 'coloured', it's automatic. I say 'oh you mean black, coloured is an offensive term'

seeker · 28/02/2012 22:34

It doesn't change all the time, you know. "Coloured" has been out for ages and ages and ages. You'll notice that if you ever manage to extricate yourself from 1955 and come and have a look round 2012!

PeppyNephrine · 28/02/2012 22:34

and thats why PC doesn't really actually exist, because what it is taken to mean is a a joke.
The only people who talk about political correctness are the people complaining about not being allowed to say coon and spacker. They are the people who trot out (made up) stories about baa baa black sheep being banned, about cancelling christmas to not upset muslims, and being forced to say chalk board and person-hole cover.
None of this is true. Coloured has been on the shit list for decades. Language doesn't change suddenly. You're not forced to use particular language. These people are simply not happy that the world moves on and thety either can't or won't keep up.

perceptionreality · 28/02/2012 22:39

I knew 'coloured' was an insult at a young age (5 or 6) and cringed then when I heard another child use it. That was 25 years ago.

Whatmeworry · 28/02/2012 22:46

Uhuh. That took you a loooong time to think up a riposte didn't it?

It's called a job.... gets in the way of full time MN ing

You're wrong. You know you're wrong. Everyone else knows you're wrong.

See - classic "I'm right and you are wrong" without any intellectual input. When are you going to insult me again Peppy, I must "deserve it" again by now.

As to "Everyone", thats a big claim, but again that's a common trait inteh fundamentalist mindet - I am Right, so everyone Agrees with Me, except You.

I think "a small % of noisy frothers on MN" is probably a more accurate cohort of people who agree with you.

Actually, I'm beginning to think the whole PC game is just an adult version of the schoolyard bully ploy, where the in crowd define a mysterious and ever shifting set of rules, and get their acolytes to howl down the "out-crowd" as these are so shit scared of being part of the out-crowd themselves.

Now let me think, who has been doing the most howling down and insulting of people on this thread, Peppy?.

That'd be you then......

PeppyNephrine · 28/02/2012 22:48

We've had all the intellectual argument dear, it confused you. So we're saving that for others and for you we have to talk sloooowly and with emphasis.

I call BINGO on the bully word! Are you 12?

PS. I've only insulted you if you check. Not people.

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 28/02/2012 22:54

There's been loads of intellectual input, you just haven't read or understood any of it.

It isn't ok to call people coloured. That's why people who don't want to be considered racist don't. Why are so you so very keen to go around calling people coloured anyway?

seeker · 28/02/2012 23:15

What stops you using the worn "nigger"? whatmeworry?

seeker · 28/02/2012 23:16

Sorry, word.

FizzyLaces · 28/02/2012 23:27

I would strongly advise people not to say coloured as it is meaningless and, to me, means anything other than white.

My small child (3) reckons people are either pink, brown or yellow. I asked 'who is yellow?'. She said 'the Simpsons'. I am an awful parentGrin In my defence I also have a teenager so can't police all tv.

Whatmeworry · 28/02/2012 23:35

There's been loads of intellectual input, you just haven't read or understood any of it.

Rot - continually asserting the same unproven point is not intellectual input, its just chanting a mantra of faith.

All the ntellectual input so far has been to argue against the mantra, and the only response has been to call people who disagree twats/morons/tools etc.

PeppyNephrine · 28/02/2012 23:38

Yes, yes, fine . Nice cup of tea and a biscuit before bed? We'll get back to the grown up talk once you pop off.

sozzledchops · 28/02/2012 23:51

I said earlier but I grew up where coloured would have been the politer option over black which would have been considered harsh and rude. Yes things have changed but it took me time to feel comfortable, ignoring years of conditioning (bearing in mind I lived in small, closed almost all White community) using the word black - it really felt different and alien. Imagine if suddenly Asian was out and Paki was back in, or black out again and coloured the accepted- imagine it might be a bit difficult to get used to.

I'm not trying to justify the use of coloured at all but I think some posters whether they are younger or just more in time with a more multiple cultural up bringing realise that some folk are more out of touch. I'm almost tempted to do a survey on FB to see what terms people use, what they grew up with and what they still use and think of being acceptable - but of course I won't.

I still hear my mainly older acquaintances and family back in my home town use Paki and chinky - seems some folk and places aren't as up to dat asothers and none of these people mean any offense. And yes I have questioned it but they still don't get it.

Whatmeworry · 29/02/2012 00:20

We'll get back to the grown up talk once you pop off.

What - howling unproven mantras of faith and making ad hominem attacks on people who disagree with you?

Grown up, indeed.....

lambethlil · 29/02/2012 07:20

whatme to be fair, you are refusing to engage in a childish manner.

As has been said upthread language changes. I still don't understand why adopting the terms that people prefer to be used when describing themselves is such an affront to you.

tethersend · 29/02/2012 07:22

"All the ntellectual input so far has been to argue against the mantra, and the only response has been to call people who disagree twats/morons/tools etc."

Whatme, please point out where I have called anyone a twat, moron or tool. I have argued against you and others on this thread without recourse to insult. Ah yes, but I remember now- you're ignoring me aren't you, so my argument doesn't count...

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 29/02/2012 08:20

It's been years and years and years since everyone cottoned onto all the very logical reasons why coloured is not a good word. It's not sudden, it's not arbitrary and it's not difficult. Honestly don't understand why anyone wouldnt get it by now.

mingofmongo · 29/02/2012 08:49

Is this thread still rattling along?

It was over when Peppy was outed as disablist several pages ago, and none of you frothers had the honesty to pull her up on it. Everything shes posted since has been personal attack and wriggling. Deflection from her own hypocrisy.

I now appreciate that you really do believe that you are right, even when strong argument from whatme hasnt made you pause for thought. Stubbornness has its place I guess. It certainly hasnt coloured my opinion of any of you :)

TheOriginalSteamingNit · 29/02/2012 08:59

Where's the strong argument? Must have missed that bit!

seeker · 29/02/2012 10:05

Strong argument? Where was that then?

Actually, you don't really need a strong argument for this one. Scots people don't like being called Scotch, black people don't like being called coloured, Irish people don't like being called paddies, red heads don't like beinng called gingermingers and Pakistanis don't like being called Pakis. So don't. Simple.

mingofmongo · 29/02/2012 10:27

Scotch is a drink. I can see why the scots dont like it.

Paki, paddie, gingerminga (?) are all derogatory terms used to insult. Thats why they are gingerist.

'Coloured' isnt an insult - it isn't used to 'call' people anything at all. Its used as a descriptive reference and while a little outdated is as acceptable now as it always was, purely on the basis that half of the population are still using it. This may offend your PC outlook on life but its a fact.

I'll keep using it too, thanks. The minute I stop you'll just change the rules again anyway, so why bother.

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