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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to think that the school system is vastly overcomplicated

52 replies

diminishedresponsibility · 24/02/2012 21:43

I started learning how it all works about 2 years ago when my ds turned 1.
I still don't fully understand it.
KS1, KS2, levels, SATs, Primary Framework, PSHE, CIT and FFS why can't school years be named their age i.e when a child is 4-5 etc.
It just seems to get more complicated the more I get into it.

OP posts:

Tee2072 · 26/02/2012 11:45

Triggles, the cut off in NI is 31st June, so your son wouldn't even be starting pre-school this year if you lived here!

Triggles · 26/02/2012 12:01

Tee Okay. I'm packing up to move now.

Tee2072 · 26/02/2012 12:06

Of course, we've had 2 bomb scares and 2 security alerts this week. Still want to come?

Triggles · 26/02/2012 12:17

Hmmm.....

dandelionss · 26/02/2012 12:27

At our secondary school they call Y7 'first years', Y8s second year etc and so when people talk about y10 or something it confuses me!

Original poster

diminishedresponsibility · 26/02/2012 20:28

Excuse my air of self-importance when posting this message, I just really wanted to respond to posts.
FolkGirl: apology accepted, I did indeed misinterpret your point. All is forgiven. I believe you?re a nice person as I hope oyu believe I'm normally non-confrontational ☺
Triggles: I absolutely agree with you, my DS is at pre-school 1 day a week at mo and starting 3 days a week in April. He?ll be 4 when he starts primary as most children are I believe. I have seen friends? DCs returning home exhausted and fit for nothing except sleep. It makes my heart sink.
I await the results of this generation following the early years? of supposed ?learning through play?. Although I realise we have the option to keep them out of school until they turn five (or is that year 5!)
NorfolkNChance: Your point (and mine) beautifully illustrated. Are there any to snigger at. I once worked on a German project and it?s working title acronym was FISTIN. We never told them.
EdithWeston: I completely agree with your post and I appreciate your contributions towards the plight of Plain English.
Tee: Oh no! What did you do? Did you just have to opt for the place available?

OP posts:

Almostfifty · 26/02/2012 20:36

Now, I found the Scottish system much harder to get into.

In England, I was sent the papers to fill in for each child. Up here, I had to find out when the admissions dates were myself.

If I had wanted to go to another school, rather than the catchment area one, I would have had to go to the catchment school and inform them they weren't as good as the one I wanted to send my child to. In England, I just had to put my preferences down on the form.

As regards years, P1 to P7 is much easier than the English system. I still can't understand why they're not doing it infant/junior stage like we did...

Tee2072 · 26/02/2012 21:21

Diminished, it wasn't a big deal. One of my friends has twins who are also starting in September and she had already done the leg work so I just went to an open house for the local one and applied there. We find out in a month if my son has a place.

WillowFae · 26/02/2012 21:25

OP - my children's school DO use the year they are in.

DS has just turned 8 so he is in 8s (Yr 3 to everyone else)
DD will turn 5 in May so she is in 5s (Reception to everyone else).

Starts in pre-school when you go into 3s and finishes at the end of primary in 11s.

So the year is named after the age your will turn during that academic year.

Also no levels, although as a teacher myself I do find them useful and would be interested to know what level DS WOULD be.

Original poster

diminishedresponsibility · 26/02/2012 21:37

wow willow so it can be done. Can I be rude and ask is it an independent, you don't need to say.
Do state schools have to follow the year name disparity?
Just interested.
I am sure that by the time DS gets to school I will be satisfied that I will have as much knowledge of the 'system' as the middle class mothers I know and respect and whose DCs have, in my eyes, achieved.
That will make me feel better, don't shoot me for it!
I have certainly calmed since my OP.

OP posts:

nooka · 26/02/2012 21:46

We started in the UK system, moved to the US, and then shortly after to Canada. All with slightly different systems, rules and names for classes. Luckily the children soon pick up the rules, and then delight in telling you when you've got it wrong

My children are currently in grades 6 and 7 at elementary. In the UK ds would be in second year secondary and dd in top year juniors. In the US they would both be in middle school. But then my first secondary school used Upper Third, Lower Fourth etc, and the second one went for Shells, Removes etc. It's all a bit strange really. The key in my opinion is to make sure you get to know your children's teachers, and tell them that yes you do really want to know when they are struggling, have been bad etc.

nooka · 26/02/2012 21:48

Oh and in the States and here in Canada it wouldn't work very well to use the age, as they hold children back on a fairly regular basis, so chances are some of the children in '5' might be six or even seven (both my children have kids in their classes who have been held back).

Original poster

diminishedresponsibility · 26/02/2012 22:16

so you mastered your way through 3 systems and you're still alive!
I have heard about the held back thing, does it work? how would you feel if your child was held back? Think I would be devastated. It has such a negative turn to it. I think in England they wouldn't allow it to be named as such as it may breach human rights or something.

OP posts:

WillowFae · 26/02/2012 22:32

Yes diminishedresponsiblity - independent. But other independents near us still use the state school system of naming the years. We seem to be an odity.

Original poster

diminishedresponsibility · 26/02/2012 22:59

well I embrace that nonconformism, especially when it makes more sense.

OP posts:

TroublesomeEx · 27/02/2012 02:36

Thanks

nooka · 27/02/2012 04:26

I think that it works well for children who are started at school later due to immaturity or those who were being born very close to the cut off. I think its more difficult when children are held back later on. For example ds has a friend who was held back at the very end of primary and is now repeating the top year of elementary. Watching your friends go off to high school and being left behind must be a bit grim, plus I'm not sure it's ideal when puberty is kicking in as the older child stands out so much more.

frasersmummy · 27/02/2012 06:05

almostfifty.. In scotland you dont need to tell your local school that you are not going there at all

You are right you do need to go to local school and register. This is because all kids are allocated a place at their local school by default .So you go along do the forms, meet the head etc.

If you then want your child to go somewhere else you fill out a form and send it to the council. They do the rest .

Sometimes they will ask is your child coming here ... then you have to decide what to tell them

frasersmummy · 27/02/2012 06:12

almostfifty.. In scotland you dont need to tell your local school that you are not going there at all

You are right you do need to go to local school and register. This is because all kids are allocated a place at their local school by default .So you go along do the forms, meet the head etc.

If you then want your child to go somewhere else you fill out a form and send it to the council. They do the rest .

Sometimes they will ask is your child coming here ... then you have to decide what to tell them

mumnotmachine · 27/02/2012 08:05

Where I live the kids start full time school at 3 (depending on class availablitity) My son was 3 in the July and full time school in Sept. Hes now 9 and in his 7th year of ft school!

Triggles · 27/02/2012 08:15

nooka - I think it's much more prevalent for children (in the states) to be held back in the early years (kindergarten, first grade - very early elementary years) than when they are older. I know that in the last 20 years there has been a real fuss over what was termed "social passing" in schools, where children were passed on to the next year, even though their skills were not good, simply because they didn't want to hold them back in junior or senior high school where socially it would be more upsetting for the child (teenager). There's been a huge outcry against social passing as some people were graduating from high school with very minimal skills. Although I would imagine it was a relatively small number of people, it's still not good practice.

I've never seen any huge stigma attached to children being held back in early elementary years, however, there definitely is once they hit junior and senior high school level (12yrs old and above generally).

Almostfifty · 27/02/2012 14:20

Ah now, frasersmummy, the Mums I've talked that have decided to apply to the school my boys went to have always been asked and asked why. In fact one said she'd had quite a curt conversation with the Head.

Luckily for me, my boys went to the local fabulous primary.

Pendeen · 27/02/2012 16:26

" You can also find the National Curriculum online but it won't mean anything. Again, it's for planning purposes. It won't help you as a parent to understand anything. "

Really?

National Curriculum

Fairly straightforward and easy to undera=stand.

Pendeen · 27/02/2012 16:26

understand

Original poster

diminishedresponsibility · 27/02/2012 22:15

quote from an article in the evening standard today (although not the main point of the piece):
"If you are not armed with the data and background knowledge to schools and the system, you are at a loss. The labyrinth and complexity of trying to find the right school for your child is just too difficult."
There, that's the crappy situation I'm on about, it's exactly the kind of thing that makes you feel that you just don't ever know enough.
If anyone's interested here's the link:
www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-24038718-places-at-best-schools-go-to-richer-families.do

OP posts:

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