To think that midwives should not be punished when high risk women have a home birth which goes wrong

[ReallyTired]

I am in favour of homebirth and my second child was born at home. For low risk women it can be the most sensible option. I have also had a consultant led birth because I had a flu during the the birth of ds. Being in labour with flu is a different experience to being healthy and being in labour. The body is having to work so much harder.

Giving birth when you are ill is high risk. I feel that Mrs Bird chose her homebirth and the risk that it entailed. It is not rocket science to know that childbirth when you are ill is risky. It is tragic that she lost her baby. In the UK a woman has the right to change her mind at any time during a homebirth.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-17094924

I think the midwife is dammed whatever happens as a woman has a right to a homebirth however stupid. I feel that high risk women who have a homebirth should sign a disclaimer. Ie. that they take financial and ethical responsibly if the birth goes wrong.

I feel concerned that punishing the midwife for the stillbirth will make community midwives reluctant to attend homebirths.

On the basis of the facts in that report, the midwife did make mistakes.

The mother apparently did not refuse to be transferred to hospital.
the MW apparently made no comment or advice to the mother about her high temperature or warned of the risks.
The MW left her alone in established labour

"Ms Gingell failed to make a care plan over her high temperature reading during the early hours of 18 July, and the baby's abnormal heart rate, and did not share this information with Mrs Bird and her husband, the hearing was told."

The mother was unable to make an informed decision as she was apparently not informed of any risk or that the baby was in distress.

She is not being punished because a homebirth went wrong:

"The NMC accepted it was never alleged Ms Gingell's acts or omissions contributed to the stillbirth"

She is punished because she did not take reasonably precautions as a midwife:

"Ms Gingell failed to make a care plan over her high temperature reading during the early hours of 18 July, and the baby's abnormal heart rate, and did not share this information with Mrs Bird and her husband, the hearing was told."

"Ms Gingell also left Mrs Bird without the care of a midwife or health professional while she collected pethidine from Stoke Mandeville Hospital"

Not quite the same thing.

"The Conduct and Competence Committee heard Mrs Bird had gone into labour at home late on 17 July, and had been feeling sick and had a high temperature.

Ms Gingell failed to make a care plan over her high temperature reading during the early hours of 18 July, and the baby's abnormal heart rate, and did not share this information with Mrs Bird and her husband, the hearing was told.

Evidence was heard Mrs Bird should have been transferred to hospital, based on the baby's abnormal heart rate and her increasing pulse, recorded between 02:00 and 02:30.

Ms Gingell also left Mrs Bird without the care of a midwife or health professional while she collected pethidine from Stoke Mandeville Hospital."

in this case, it seems as though the MW did something wrong.. she left a feverish unwell labouring woman alone for 25 minutes

she did not share the information with the mother.

therefore the mother did not know she was high risk so ethically, legally and morally it seems as though the midwife needs to shoulder the blame

I chose a homebirth with ds2 , i said from the start to the midwife that if she wasnt happy at any time i would transfer to hospital , in other words a homebirth was my prefered option but i would go with the professional opinion. As it turns out the homebirth turned into a crash section .
From the sounds of the article/report it doesnt sound as though the woman in labour was given a professional opinion and so continued because she thought all was well .

benbird-if you really are the father then perhaps it night be best for you to step away from the keyboard. I am sure this cannot be helping you. You have my utmost sympathy.

I'm very sorry for you and yourwife's loss, Benbird.

OP, YABU
you clearly havent got the facts straight.

I was about to post my opinion that, in retrospect, I wouldn't have had the two h/bs I did, not because it isn't safe, but because I've subsequently heard of so many errors being made by the mws.
So tragic.
My sympathies to you and your wife.

NMC hearing

Op YABU. The facts speak for themselves, if you read what is written the midwife failed in her duties and left a couple bereft.

Benbird you and Rachel have my deepest sympathy.

Particularly as the hearing states:
Ms Gingell has made no expression of remorse or apology to Mr and Mrs Bird

Rhino-she has probably been told by her lawyer not to make any direct contact or personal comments to the couple in case it is seen as accepting liability. I dont think we can read in to that the women isnt dreadfully sorry...

She was not present and not represented

Really?-is that normal procedure then? Surely she must have taken some legal advice though?

In general, YANBU. But in this case, YABVU.

There is a link above to the full hearing transcript.

I'm not a fan of home births but that is a different thread.
Benbird, you have my sympathy and my admiration for (presumably) having to push this hearing through yourselves.
OP I think quite the opposite, in that it appears midwives have very little accountability in lots of cases. CErtainly in my case, we were so distraught at the death of our daughter during labour, that we didn't follow anything up. Even though there had been extensive retrospective additions to the notes, after death, as well as other numerous issues.

Thanks rhino but I wont read it-having been through the pain of stillbirths myself it is a bit too raw. Sad sad story for all concerned-and yes I am including the midwife in my sentiment.

Benbird - my sympathies to you and your wife. Don't be angry with bellstar - she knows what debate can be like on MN and is just trying to spare you further pain. I'm sure nobody on this site thinks that misconduct should be swept under the carpet.

Again, I am very sorry for your loss.

The point is, should a midwife with such experience and knowledge be making such obvious mistakes? As a first time mother we put our lives and the lives of our unborn babies in these peoples hands, we do not question there expertise we trust them to deliver our children safely!
Which is precisely what should have happened! Instead Ben and Rachel were made to feel like an inconvenience in there own home,and left alone when she could have got Rachel to a hospital where then outcome could have been very different! This is what midwives are trained for!
To say that "Gingall actions did not affect the babies death" is an outrageous statement to make considering she was found guilty on several charges.
To Benbird and Rachel i admire everyday that you get up and try to live normal lives which i know can't be easy my thoughts are with you, i hope you both get the outcome you deserve for your daughter

FYI this is the definition of a stillbirth

Noun:
The birth of an infant that has died in the womb after having survived through at least the first 28 weeks of pregnancy.

Our baby was alive outside of the womb thereby not making this a stillbirth just pure and undefended misconduct by the midwife.

Whatever happened and whoever may be at fault it's a tragedy regardless and I'm sorry for your loss, Benbird.