to want to whack my DSis with The Big Fat Reality Stick

[NoWayNoHow]

This thread is probably going to massively out me, but I don't care. And I'm genuinely too fed up to have any clue as to whether or not IABU. But here goes.

DH and I moved last year with his job. We get subsidised accommodation with his work, and as such, we decided to hold onto our old house where we moved from until he passed probation period, which he's now done. House is still costing us every month as has mortgage (repayment), so we now want to sell it.

In mean time, we let DSis and BIL who are recently returned to UK stay there short term, rent free, whilst they look for jobs (something they're taking their sweet time about as they have a fat chunk of back up savings and no motivation). Their crap is in our house, and when I say crap, I mean all the contents of their old house which they've taken out of storage but not unpacked (as they don't know how long they're going to be at ours). Boxes I don't mind, but they haven't built their bed or sofa, and are sleeping on a mattress on the floor of one of the bedrooms, and sitting on sofa cushions and a bean bag for living room.

I want to make appointments with estate agents when I'm down there next weekend (old house in different county and only down there every now and again), so have asked them to build bed base and sofa so that when they come to take photos to market our property, it doesn't look like we have frikkin' squatters.

Just had long email. Sofa might break if they keep building and rebuilding. And anyway, they do'nt know where the screws are for it, and finding them will necessitate searching through the boxes. And can't they just move stuff around so that the agent can take photos of empty rooms. And can I decide quite quickly on a different course of action as they've got plans this weekend, and then she's away for a week doing a work trial next week.

AIBU to want her just to suck it up and build the bloody furniture so that our house doesn't look like some kind of episode of "How Clean is your House" on the website when we're trying to sell the bloody thing?

And WIBU to remind her that just because she's away next week, it doesn't mean that her DH's husband's hands will suddenly stop working so he can't take 2 hours to put some flat pack back together?

At the moment, I just want to tell her that the house it either getting photos taken with all her furniture beautifully presented, or it's getting photos done EMPTY!!

Time to start demanding rent from 1st March I think... at the market rate.

YANBU.

I can't believe you aren't charging them rent though - especially if they have a "fat chunk" of savings....

I would tell her to suck it up or get out to be honest....

We were always going to be charging them from March, but only the interest part of our mortgage cost as the trade off was that they would have to keep the place looking good and facilitate all potential viewings! Can't see that happening with piles on unbuilt furniture in our kitchen-diner!!!

Er, do what you say in your last sentence. She is massively taking the piss! How disrespectful - has she FORGOTTEN that you are effectively bankrolling her and her DH right now?

At the very least, I would be TELLING them that I wanted the house clean and empty of boxes. They can pay for storage. If they don't like it, tell them to leave.

The way the house looks is really important. It will affect your chances of a sale. If it isn't in a good presentable condition, they will be costing you money, even if in that it just takes longer to sell.

Right, tell them that EA will take photos with all rooms completely empty then, so that it can be sold as a house with vacant possession. They will have to be on hand to move their stuff around, that seems fair enough to you in return for xx weeks rent-free accommodation, doesn't she agree?

We get subsidised accommodation with my husband's job (HM Forces) and I would not sell my house. Rent it out, and get something towards the mortgage. We've kept our house because if we get posted back to UK, or dh gets made redundant, we have somewhere to live without worrying about where we will go.

Start charging a market rent, and make sure that your dsis is on the register for the Council Tax and the utilities as well. Explain to her that you can no linger afford to subsidise her, so it is her choice to either pay you, or move out.

I'd tell her to move out then!

Tell them that you now realise that as they don't have the time or inclination to keep the house in top 'estate agent presentable' order, you'll now be charging xx from March - interest, plus a chunk on top to offset the effect their crap is going to have on viewings.

If they don't like it, tell them your other option is to rent the house out properly.

WOW! YANBU! I agree with Thecuntworm, lay it on the line!

I agree with scaryteacher rent it out at the market rate and don't sell it.

You are so NBU!! What a pair of freeloaders!! And as someone who worked in an estate agents for years, can I just say that furnished houses sell quicker than empty ones (obviously so long as they are tidy & well presented) perhaps it is time to say - either in a friendly but firm phone call or email - that in that case you're going to need them to move out. The biggest problem you're going to have in selling your property is them. If your old house is in another county then you will need to give the agent a key so they can come & go as needed. I've seen it before - 'guests' of the owner, or tenant - putting a spoke in the works. How often will a viewing be cancelled as its 'not convenient'? It suits them for your house not to get sold quickly, remember! Get rid, or at least tell them you are going to rent it out, and do they want 1st refusal? You've helped them out, now it's time for them to reciprocate x

aaargh.
You will have to lay it on the line to her.
Tell her selling quickly is your priority, you don't mind helping her out with a place to stay but not at the expense of your financial future. So which does she want to do - get the place in good order for the estate agent, or move out. Whichever she finds most convenient of course, but by the weekend. You knew she'd understand.

I'd also suggest keeping your house and renting it out if you can, but that's based on knowing an older woman who was a housemistress for a top boarding school for her career, and therefore had free accomodation, that goes when you retire and she really regrets not buying a 'buy to let' years ago that she could move into at retirement, rather than having to use her savings to buy something.

(However if your DH is for example, in the Church and will therefore be given somewhere to live in retirement, ignore my post).

And if you're renting it out (as an unfurnished property) then she needs to be leaving ASAP, or renting it for the going rate off you. (Don't just do for your mortgage costs, you know youll be expected to keep it in good repair/pay for boiler servicing etc, get enough to cover all your costs, if she can't afford that, rent outside family)

We want to sell it as we would like to have the option to buy locally where we are if we see a bargain, and rent out here as the market where DH works is far less dead more buoyant and we don't like the idea of being landlords from afar. We also have quite a lot of equity tied up in it and could do with a bit of that to clear debts from moving, TBH.

I guess this is all just so irritating because it's on top of the fact that they're just ambling along listlessly with no sense of direction at all, whilst simultaneously making the most ridiculous mountains out of tiny molehills. She honestly started crying on the phone the other day because just THINKING about doing a one week trial for a job was too stressful. FFS

A rethink.

This is going to cause you so much hassle.

Phone up and say that finances have changed. Lie! Say, sorry but I need to charge full market rent, from March. We will need to get tenants for 6 months before we can sell. Anything really (in fact as others have said you might find it a good idea to really do this, rent and not sell).

Get them paying full whack or out.

'The biggest problem you're going to have in selling your property is them' - YES exactly.

It's the stuff that rifts are made of.

x-posts.

Definitely sell then, and your last post on your sister's, err, sensitivity is worrying.

Normal together people would be quick smart on getting themselves sorted, and highly aware of the favour they owe and what you're doing for them. Unfortunately, family often don't have those barriers of good nammers between them.

This sounds like trouble brewing. They are already causing problems and sound as if they will stall, drag heels, fail to do as you ask.

Lie lie lie about circumstances changing but GET THEM OUT before they get any comfier. Honestly.

Good nammers? Manners, obviously.

Though your sister sounds like she needs a bit of a kick in the nammers.

crunch - nammers!

Thank you for the laugh.

I think you're actually all completely right. They don't want to face the real world and how it works (i.e. get job. get income. spend income.), and even though I know that they don't want to settle long term in the area our house is in, I also know that they are currently doing anything and everything to avoid reality, and now you've got me worried that they're just going to make this difficult (intentionally or unintentionally) so that they can buy themselves more time.

Did I mention that they were staying with my parents before staying ours? FOR " MONTHS. They've been back in the UK since November already, and have still managed to do fuck all with their lives.

This doesn't bode well, does it???

Doesn't bode well for your parents, certainly.

Turn off the leccy and water.

boffin speaking of utilities, we did tell them that they could have the first month rent free to give them a chance to find jobs, but that they needed to pay utilities of x amount from the outset. Still waiting... Had to remind last night...

Actually, the more I write, the more of a Class to A mug I'm starting to feel. Which is unusual for my relationship with my sister, as I usually don't countenance any of her bullcrap

Rent free - very kind. What about utilities? You might want to check your position re. occupying rights i.e. if you want them to leave quickly and they don't. Also, possible buyers will not exchange/complete if you have tenants official or otherwise in the house. Their solicitor will advise them not to and your solicitor will also tell you to empty the house.

I think the tap of human kindness does need turning off here - put the utilities in their name, give them a firm deadline for making the house viewable by prospective purchasers, and generally make them less comfortable.